Having got my money back and considerably more I was very happy to hold.... in fact I added at 60.7p in early December , bought and sold (profitably) after the 52p ex and have added on any dips today.
This was always a better bet than ASLI but I did buy ASLI and just caught the dividend so in at 57p.
Having traded very successfully in API over the years and knowing a bit about it I suspect my continued investment will prove rather profitable with very little downside.
The only note of caution is that it is ABRDN but so is ASLI |
Sold final rump this morning at 7p+. Don't fancy holding a wind-swept moorland in Scotland!
API has been a good wind-up ride. Now just need ASLI to belatedly do likewise. |
markth,
I think you have misread.
35.72 was the market cap yesterday.
People who are buying, are hoping for a good percentage {20 to 40 say} return, but the timescale is not obvious. |
Interesting (but lengthy) comment on Far Ralias value here https://parkswatchscotland.co.uk/2024/07/25/abrdns-sale-of-far-ralia-land-prices-forestry-grants-and-the-natural-capital-financial-bubble/ |
121SPA, it won't have done as redemption doesn't take place until tomorrow. The most recent RNS sets out the timetable. |
Has your 52p per share cash proceeds landed in your account yet? |
Nexus,
The expression you have set out in your post 1302 doesn't work because the shares being redeemed are a different class to the shares held. And re your post 1305, the number of shares that will be redeemed is not an unknown, it is the same number of shares as your API holding at the record date. You are being issued with one redeemable bonus share for every API share held. So you will very briefly hold the same number of each. The number of API shares that you will hold post redemption will be exactly the same number as you held before. |
@Swiftnick re:#1304. I disagree. This is not a "bonus share" event. I have set down two expressions to calculate the CGT liability where the only unknown is the number of shares that will be redeemed from your holding; a number which you will know tomorrow. It does not rely on any market pricing vagaries such as bid-offer spread, knowledge of the opening price on the day etc.. I suggest that you do the calcs both ways and tell us the % variance. I have nothing more to contribute to this question. |
 Nexus,Thanks for your reply in post 1302, but I don't think you have understood the question.We used to have x shares in APIThen we had x shares in API and x bonus shares.Soon we will have x shares in API plus £0.52x in cash.The receipt of £0.52x in cash triggers a part disposal for CGT purposes. See hTTps://www.gov.uk/guidance/capital-gains-tax-share-reorganisation-takeover-or-merger and scroll down to "Bonus and rights issues of shares of a different class".My question was, in what ratio does one apportion one's total buying costs against (i) the redeemed bonus shares and (ii) the continued holding in API ordinary shares?To answer my own question, (i) the bonus shares are unlisted, but they are clearly worth 52p each because that is the price they are being redeemed at; and (ii) for the continued holding in API shares the guidance is to use the value on the day that the shares are first listed after the reorganisation. That was yesterday and the closing price was 9.5p.The guidance (step 2) says split the total cost between the different classes of shares using the same proportion.My interpretation is therefore to apportion 52/61.5 of total buying costs against the bonus shares and 9.5/61.5 against the continued holding in the listed API ordinary shares.Does anyone disagree? |
I’ve sold out after being here for many years. One of my best performers this year, but a fairly average investment over the duration of my holding. According to my not particularly accurate records a small capital gain, but that excludes dividends which have been handy |
@swiftnick re#1300. Quick reply
apportioned buy costs per share =
((total broker/platform buy costs for all buy transactions + total SDRT)/total shares held)* number of shares redeemed.*
* observe the brackets |
Out completely yesterday at just under 9.5p.
Far Ralia may go on for some time. Remember the Scottish Government ( a department of) will be involved somewhere in the sale process of this asset. Given I consider Scotland totally uninvestable it seemed an opportune time to exit and be able to redeploy into fresh opportunities. Hard to believe we were able to buy these under 50p just a few short months ago. |
Nexus,Thanks for your post 1298, but I knew that already. My question was what fraction one uses for the apportioned buy costs per share. Does one use 52/61.5 for the bonus shares and 9.5/61.5 for the residual API holding? Or something different? I am not sure that it would be correct to adjust for the PID.If one sells the residual API holding before 6 April 2025 it presumably won't make any difference, but if one waits beyond that point the two disposals will fall in different tax years so the apportionment fraction matters. |
@swiftnick ref#1296 I was half asleep when I wrote my #1297.
The capital payment of 52.00pps is being executed by means of a redeemable bonus share issue. In effect API will issue x shares to you, and immediately buy them back from you for 52.00 pps. So the CGT liability is very easily calculated as:
= (Your average buy price per share - apportioned buy costs per share - 52.00p)*(number of shares issued to you and redeemed). |
@swiftnick ref#1296 I'm uncertain as to the cgt rules for a partial capital return; but I can say this.
1. There is a 3.0pps PID due atop of the 52.0pps cap return, ex-divi on the 19th Dec. So your suggested calc is incorrect.
2. You could consider joining the HMRC forums and asking the question; in my experience you will get reply within a week from an HMRC operative.
3. Why worry about it now? I hope that by the time you need to declare this cgt event (Jan 2026), the final tranche due from the sale of Far Ralia, will have been paid out. |
Does anyone know how to calculate the capital gain or loss for UK CGT purposes on the 52p return of capital?Today's closing price (ex the redeemable bonus share) is 9.5p. Does that mean one apportions the cost price of one's holding using the fraction 52/(52+9.5) = 52/61.5 ? Or is it some other method?At times like this I wish I had bought my holding through my ISA or SIPP and then I wouldn't have needed to worry! |
Papy02, I actually have no thoughts additional to the conversation we had a couple of months back where the central assumption was that the 64p included any future dividends (i.e. 1p) and the remaining 63p to be distributed contained 3p or so from Far Ralia. The price hovering close to 60.7p for quite a while before today suggests that our central assumption and that of the market is reasonably aligned and nothing major left to play for.
As it happens, I bought a shed load this morning below 9p and a bunch of them went back out again around 9.5p. Let's see what the rest of the week brings, though, as there may still be some interesting possibilities on what is now a "leveraged"/intense position on Far Ralia + cash.
Well, this may have been successful, but I have yet to write on the NESF board!! Just back home and see another ugly day for the renewables and other ITs. A real beating over the past few weeks. |
Hi Chucko,
Thanks for your post. I did buy some this morning at 9.2p
The 1p dividend was paid on 29 Nov, and portfolio-sale-completion was announced end of day on the same day. So it’s not 100% clear, but it seems to me likely the Dividend was paid from existing cash at API, not from the completion proceeds?
Your calculation also seems to estimate 63p return from here (incl the 52p) rather than 62p (after deduction of the 1p Nov 29th div).
(I get 62.7p as my central estimate, assuming they sell Far Ralia for £10m, and assuming £5m operating/windup costs).
But I would be very grateful for your thoughts on this. |
I actually paid 52p per share after costs a while back, so it makes the total returns calculation lot easier. So who's brave enough to buy more now? |
Papy02:
Much appreciated, don't think I would have deduced.
So I add £8,320 to what current share price gives to keep my
book correct.
Many thanks. |
The 3p div doesn't go ex till 19th , so is included in the current share price.
I.e. you are double counting it - should delete your item 2 |
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