3i Infrastructure Share Discussion Threads

[jonwig] 29/11/2016 17:04

8w - true! But the inflation return is real, the discount rate elective.

[8w] 29/11/2016 17:01

Bond sell off is occurring for a number of reasons but the in the mix is the possibility of higher inflation. Return on infrastructure investments is often linked to rate of inflation..... what you lose on the swings you gain on the roundabouts

[jonwig] 29/11/2016 17:00

EGL? I actually held the old Ecofin Trust [ECWO] for a while. They aren't comparable - 3IN essentially buys whole businesses and runs them. And a different mix, too. I think the Finnish business Elenia is susceptible to a big value uplift (this has been discussed here) and might go somewhere toexplain the premium.

EDIT: should have added: the Ecofin is valued on quoted share prices, 3IN on discounted cashflow from its investee companies. Hence not comparable.

[jimcar] 29/11/2016 16:25

Jonwig How do you rate this compared to EGL? EGL seems more energy, gearing but a big discount to NAV, 3IN seems to have nicer assets but I can't see how the premium can hold.

[jonwig] 29/11/2016 15:29

JIM - yes and other infra funds are falling too. They will be upping their discount rates leading to lower navs, maybe! Personally I'm pretty indifferent.

[jimcar] 29/11/2016 14:57

It is seen as a bond proxy. If bonds sell off (their yield rises and price falls) then this will follow.

[rjd123] 29/11/2016 14:51

Can anybody advise there thoughts on the continued sell off?

[davr0s] 23/11/2016 19:05

3.78p xd in the morning

[petewy] 03/11/2016 08:30

Thought results are good. Waiting for them and then to buy in.
Not much dealing. Awaiting Trump Clinton results?

[jonwig] 03/11/2016 07:24

H1 results:



All good stuff, will take hours to read through. Elenia doing very well with a valuation uplift and this, to keep us in suspense:

As announced on 15 January 2016, and further to the announcement by Elenia Finance Oyj on the same date, the shareholders in Elenia are undertaking a strategic review of their interests in the business. The shareholders continue to explore their options, and no decisions have been made.

[jonwig] 02/11/2016 09:09

Tempus, "BUY":



(Free to view.)

[jonwig] 02/11/2016 07:57

Infinis again - I've just read the FT comment, which quotes:

The landfill gas business has attached to it a £350m bond that 3i Infrastructure will look to refinance in future. The debt implies the business has an enterprise valuation of £535m.

“The acquisition will also improve [3i Infrastructure’s] portfolio diversification and overall we think is an excellent fit,” wrote analysts at JPMorgan.



I've added a comment to the article expressing surprise that the RNS didn't have this.

[its the oxman] 01/11/2016 19:29

Cheers. I couldn't find anything either.

[its the oxman] 01/11/2016 08:39

Anyone heard anything re Elenia and the bid spec that was around earlier this year? Guess it's all gone away.

[cyfran101] 01/11/2016 00:45

Balfour Beatty paid £61m for 145mw generating capacity at Alkane Plc

We've paid £185 for 300mw.

There are similarities with Alkane as they basically ran their CMM powered stations as a cash cow and when it was no longer economical to do so they were converted to be powered by gas on a power response basis. Our RNS pretty much says that's what they will do with the LFG sites in flowery management speak. Opportunities in this area.

Although we have paid more per MW the electricity prices have firmed up whilst Alkane was sold when prices were weakening.

Infinis's MO was using the cash spilling out of the LFG sites to build up a wind portfolio ... until government tightened that sector up.

I therefore would not say a value trap but a reasonable purchase of a cash machine.

[davr0s] 31/10/2016 10:44

Yes you would hope that it was debt free - surprise 3IN didn't spell that out give Infinis won't have the greatest of reputations as it will still be fresh in some people's minds (thankfully I wasn't a loser at the time). But I am reasonably relaxed about it as market seems to be taking it in its stride

[n0rbie] 31/10/2016 10:40

It sounds like 3IN have bought a good cash generating business at a reasonable price.

[jonwig] 31/10/2016 10:22

DavR0s - I would think it was bought debt-free (or they'd have said). I seem to remember some divisions of INFI had decent operational performance, but the whole group was debt-riddled.

[wirralowl] 31/10/2016 10:20

"Guy Hands’s buyout firm Terra Firma Capital Partners is to repurchase the shares it doesn’t own in Infinis Energy Plc two years after listing the company in a deal that values the renewable energy generator at about 555 million pounds ($859 million)."

£555m down to £185m on a little over 10 months !? A bargain or a value trap?

[davr0s] 31/10/2016 10:13

I must admit I wasn't immediately thrilled by the RNS buying what was originally (to me) a failed IPO with all the remaining cash raised in the summer, and I don't believe private equity ever plan to leave anything on the table for the next person so my defence shields were up at the open. Very little detail in the RNS to form a view on whether shareholders have got a deal or been stiffed. But the market seems pretty sanguine about it so I'll keep holding unless the share price starts to slide

[jonwig] 31/10/2016 08:15

I don't know, rogsim. But that would explain it, perhaps!

[rogsim] 31/10/2016 07:42

Isn't Monterey a SARL investment vehicle owned by Terra Firma?

[jonwig] 31/10/2016 07:19

Buys Infinis plc for £185m.

I'm a bit confused. "Infinis plc" is a wholly-owned subsidiary of "Infinis Group", which is itself wholly owned by Terra Firms. And yet the original quoted "Infinis Energy" [INFI] was bought in December by Monterey capital.

I never held INFI, but remember it was loaded with debt which cused a lot of trouble.