Plus Markets Group Share Discussion Threads

[old thumper] 15/2/2013 11:49

I second squirrel

[squirrel888] 15/2/2013 09:10

Inside Job.

[old thumper] 15/2/2013 06:42

harry,

Your miles ahead of me and I've lost the plot about the £5k, but that's just me!

As for Chapman we all know he's here and on III, a hint from him would be nice but that's for him.

I'll have a 10p bet (unfortunatly not the SP) on a up move on the share price today (see my post on PLMO)

[harry f] 14/2/2013 17:50

I've had these discussion points ready for some time and thought over many of the angles so I'm ahead of you in my thought process.

Glad to hear you get what I'm saying on 4640, and thanks for the analogy to Nordic Energy..... keep an eye on this please and report back with any progress. One more thing, perhaps most notable of all and I forgot to mention is the "investigation" RNS of 28th Sept, no update thus far on this offers no comfort to the other side. Now if this "investigation" had finished and no wrongdoing was found then why don't they inform us? Think about this one, run it over in your head a few times.

4641..... Your perhaps right in saying £40k sounds low, good point....in comparison to other contracts it may be. But what confuses me is the following, that is it's clear to me the bulk of this if allocated correctly should have been directed at the "hearts and minds" of investors, whoever they are. Like I said in my last post £30k of the £40k seems reasonable.

So what can I remember which was allocated to this means?

Well Chapman was apparently visited (he did not want the visit, I think according to spreadbet magazine), when they the board went out, met him and discussed the proposals. They might have had a couple of the Wyvern in tow at a couple of thousands cost? I dunno. The story here.... 11th June posting.


Spencer Wilson and Amara seem to have been as good as ignored for a long time before the sales if their open letter is anything to go by, IMO minimal costs incurred here, maybe a thousand or two.

Bruce Rowan at the EGM appeared not to have spoken to them at all, you could tell that by the basic questions he was asking. IMO minimal or zero costs incurred here.

Close Brothers I don't think would need much convincing, after all they've toed the line all the way through, and ultimately even when the directors were booted out, apart from their votes, there was less than 3% support from remaining shareholders.

Sum of all of the above? Maybe £5k tops? Is that reasonable?

For the remaining shareholders I don't believe the official RNS' did much to convince them, describing the history of the company, how it got to this state and disclosing recommendations in BOLD font can't suck up say £25k, can it?

So if effort to win the "Hearts and Minds" of everyday private investors took place then how did it occur?

As a starting point it's maybe worth looking at the ID "Raindancer" on the III board, specifically searching between 6th June and 30th June. Looks nothing more than a company PR machine to me intent on getting disgruntled investors to see things the way the company wants them to.

[old thumper] 14/2/2013 16:29

harry,

4640, I'm with you on that one. Although the silence from Polemos is the same as Nordic Energy PLC which I'm watching which Bruce has 44% of. Listed on Plus Nov12 and still not a penny spent on their proposed North Sea investments, is it really so tricky to pick on a investment?

4641, £30-40k for a PR contract sounds low to me, although I don't see the need for them in a small company. Who was the earlier company Plus had?, I remember trying to get info out of them , Jeff Watt, I think.

[harry f] 14/2/2013 15:43

Thumper

No problem I thought it might be too much of a "leap" to digest all at once.

What I'm essentially saying in 4640 is that as the silence continues the other side get no comfort from it. In contrast I get a lot of comfort from it, however I don't know what's coming down the line so this could be misplaced. Like I said a while back, the silence isn't necessarily a bad thing.

Like you I'm obviously happy to follow the lead of the major shareholders.

My feeling, as it has been for quite some time is CT won't reappear anywhere until some "comfort" materialises.



Post 4641 is a different subject and perhaps easier to conceptualise. It makes sense for the public relations to be directed/ allocated into the areas it is needed most, i.e there is a threshold level of acceptance they require for successful investor relations, so that everybody thinks in a similar vein to them.

Bearing that in mind this is what I think, looking at the constituent parts of the wiki extract.

A low allocation of resources would be required to "convince" the public of the proposal, there is no/ minimal link to the public and the public relations is just notification. Just think for example how different it would be if the news was "closing 100 post offices", then the public PR would be a lot more geared towards this. The press I feel would be very much the same.

Likewise I feel a low allocation of resources would be needed for partners and employees, after all isn't this just Cyril walking into the office, gathering everyone around and stating that if Icap buy SX half the company move to them, and (unbeknown to us at the time) the other half move to Forum.

Now "other stakeholders" is vague I think most notable in this respect are the 150 listed companies. They probably would have spent moderately, and perhaps informed each company via letter/ email of the proposal. That said, their influence on the decision is largely passive.

Finally we get onto investors and this I believe is the area if resources were allocated correctly would require the most "spend". Why? because if they don't say yes it doesn't happen, so I assume the bulk (lets say indicaively 3/4+ of the £40k) would be spent here trying to get the investors to agree to the proposal, which many including myself were strongly against.

Do you loosely agree with what I'm saying?

If you do then I have a question. If say £30k was spent in investor relations with the remit of "changing investor minds" to the company's point of view then how was this spent? There are various mediums to communicate this across, which ones do you think were used? and how did they get to a £30k bill?

Happy for others to contribute if they feel they can add value.

P.s. I've deliberately delayed mentioning this until now for reasons which will become evident later.

[harry f] 14/2/2013 12:44

...and just one more thing to think about.

In the RNS of the 28th Sept the costs of the sale process are itemised. Contained within it is a £40k charge for Public relations.

"The aim of public relations by a company often is to persuade the public, investors, partners, employees, and other stakeholders to maintain a certain point of view about it, its leadership, products, or of political decisions."




From the available information you can find in what way do you think the Public Relations machine operated?

[old thumper] 14/2/2013 11:32

harry,

My broker only shows the last change for recommandations, SG 13-02-13 Buy

This site is interesting but doesn't go back enough for you,

[harry f] 14/2/2013 09:57

Does anyone know how you can see broker recc's (from Credit Suisse) for Icap going back to 2010?

In the link above the change to buy from a previous sell was on 23rd May 2011 when the share price stood at 465p-475p, since that time it peaked at around 500p around 6 weeks later and ever since has largely followed a downward trend to the 360p ish it is today.

I'm just wondering how the Credit Suisse broker views of Icap changed, especially over H2 2011.

[old thumper] 14/2/2013 05:49

pjw,

Thanks for the info, 33 Queen ST??

Have a nice weekend.

[pjw1956] 14/2/2013 05:28

A quick post before I go

What's happening here?

PLUS DERIVATIVES EXCHANGE LIMITED
Address

33 QUEEN STREET
LONDON
ENGLAND
ENGLAND
EC4R 1BR


Update new address 19 Feb 2013
Update Plus Derivatives Exchange 14 March Name changed to LOTCE LIMITED

BATES WELLS & BRAITHWAITE LONDON LLP
2-6 CANNON STREET
LONDON
EC4M 6YH



Document: AP01 - Appointment of Director
DIRECTOR APPOINTED ANTONY LANCE SHIRET
Filed on: 07 Feb 2013





Document: AP01 - Appointment of Director
DIRECTOR APPOINTED MR CLIVE RICHARD SHIRET
Filed on: 07 Feb 2013

[harry f] 13/2/2013 17:12

You too pjw.

[harry f] 13/2/2013 17:11

I don't know what the rationale for the changes at the London derivatives company is. Suzanna was a director of the company along with JTS investments which was Vijay. Both resigned and JTSI LLP are appointed with both of them as directors of JTSI.... so no change really. if they wanted to change shareholdings then surely they could have done it simpler.

After reading this briefly I wonder if the rationale is either for tax purposes, lower disclosure requirements, limited liability, or the ease in which new members can be apparently admitted?

[pjw1956] 13/2/2013 16:58

MRS SUZANNA ELIZABETH BELL


MRS SUZANNA ELIZABETH ANGELO


Off now harry, have a good weekend and Old Thumper

[harry f] 13/2/2013 16:48

Regarding 4629 it looks as though they wanted to keep that Angelo and Bell specific. However I get the feeling this may have been superseded by later events such as the GMEG companies.

I'm just looking on Duedil for a lot of my stuff and don't trust the info they have on there, for a Hirander Misra search he's on there twice one with 1 directorship (Tony's front room) and the rest are grouped separately. One says DoB 1969, the other 1974.

[harry f] 13/2/2013 16:39

Did Alexander Shyla work at Plusmarkets? Im sure I saw it somewhere that he did but cant find anything at the moment.

[pjw1956] 13/2/2013 16:27

harry, another mystery why so many directors here



Latest one

[harry f] 13/2/2013 16:14

Just had a look back on here and wondered if anything (such as #3190) may have been a trigger for setting up the new company on the 17th?

[harry f] 13/2/2013 15:37

Thanks pjw. I was looking at that earlier. I picked up on the fact Angelo worked at Tradition (another interdealer broker) in something like 2009 which I believe is part of the SIX SWISS group. I wonder if they'll get dragged into the Libor thingy in due course?

Bridge also worked at Tradition, would be good to establish if they were there at the same time?

[pjw1956] 13/2/2013 15:30

harry, we looked at it a few post back starting from here 4457 to here 4484
I'm still none the wiser


Exchange Technology Pioneers Misra and Angelo Joining Top High-Frequency Trading Conference in London