Irish Life&P.Gp Share Discussion Threads

[judgement] 20/5/2012 12:27

The court case seems to have all gone quiet. Has Piotr given up?

[cudman] 15/5/2012 09:50

Looks like we are in good hands

A BANKING consultancy firm which famously proclaimed Anglo Irish Bank to be the "best bank in the world" has been hired by state-owned Permanent TSB to help reorganise its entire operations, the Irish Independent has learned.

New York-based Oliver Wyman was also named in the US Financial Crisis Inquiry as a secretive consultancy which advised Citibank in 2005 to ramp up its exposure to collateralised debt obligations (CDOs), the complex mortgage securities which caused the world financial crisis.

The decision contributed to losses in excess of $50bn (€39bn) for Citibank and the losses meant the bank required a government bailout.

[bongo bwana] 09/5/2012 13:41

Just back from first encounter with local branch of Permanent TSB Bank.

The place looked and felt like a proper bank - perhaps could have done with an extra cashier desk. Customer services experience was satisfactory. Suits prowling the spaces keeping an eye on business.

It took in excess of 45minutes to set up a new joint account with a labrynth of compliance with "EU Regs" in relation to such business. Still, got a great rate of interest for a short term lump sum.

The suits will need to apply themselves to ensuring that patients (awaiting transport) from a nearby HSE facility do not become a nuisance in the concourse to customers in the bank.

Made a mental note to recycle profits elswewhere into this one. Agreed, that could be a long wait but maybe not.

[snap23] 29/4/2012 05:54

any1 got a link where the share price is thanks

[shareho1der] 27/4/2012 13:45

Investorpeasant.
I think you should not worry too much about deleveraging costs at this stage.
The most important right now is that the Bank WILL survive as I PREDICTED here many times.
This Bank will realise its true value when the full restructing is completed.

Nice to know that Mr Masding achieved in 2 months what Mr C(r)ook could not in a year..... useless idiot, that man.

[investorpesant] 26/4/2012 19:07

this bank was natonalised on delevraging costs 2.2bn,gov injection 2.3bn cant see anything about delevarging in this ????

[shareho1der] 26/4/2012 15:15

Thanks Declan, that is a huge relief.
Lets hope the government will not attempt to steal the 'good' bank and left the shareholders with the 'bad' one.
Giving their record of shafting the shareholders, don't hold your breath.

[declan2] 26/4/2012 12:32

No one really cares about the share price. I closed my account down in protest.


PERMANENT TSB's future as a stand-alone institution has been secured after officials from the European Commission, European Central Bank and International Monetary Fund threw their weight behind a plan to preserve the bank's independence.

Sources last night confirmed that the troika had endorsed management's plans to carve Permanent TSB into a 'good bank', that will include its healthier loans, and a 'bad bank', that will include some tracker mortgages and UK assets.

The bad bank will then be wound down over a number of years and some assets may be sold more swiftly.

The good bank will be a mainstream retail lender, focusing on residential mortgages and other consumer loans. Between them, they will have a total balance sheet of about €14bn.

The scale of the good bank may be boosted with a contract to service tens of billion of troubled tracker mortgages that are being moved from AIB and Permanent TSB into IBRC (formerly Anglo).

Address

Sources last night stressed that some of the finer details of Permanent TSB's plan had yet to be worked out. However, an agreement is expected to be announced today as part of the troika's review of the Irish bailout programme.

The announcement is likely to be made by Finance Minister Michael Noonan when he addresses the media at midday for his regular press conference after the troika's quarterly review mission.

At his press conference in January, Mr Noonan made the surprise announcement that Permanent TSB's strategic future was to be examined by the troika -- something that could result in the bank being either developed independently, merged or shut.

The Government had initially favoured putting Permanent TSB into AIB, but this met with a cool response from the latter's management.

Some elements of the troika argued in favour of keeping Permanent TSB as a stand-alone institution in the interests of fostering competition in the banking market but stressed that this would only be possible if Permanent TSB could demonstrate its viability.

Permanent TSB chief executive Jeremy Masding, who joined the bank in January, was charged with drawing up a plan to make it viable after it shed €23bn of loss-making trackers and was separated from its life-insurance arm, Irish Life.

Mr Masding's plan provided for Permanent TSB to keep some of its loss-making trackers so that it would have sufficient scale to cover its cost base.

Proactive approach

He also wants the bank to take a more proactive approach in dealing with troubled mortgages and to pitch for business servicing the tracker loans that will be transferred to IBRC as part of a broader bank restructuring plan.

Permanent TSB made its pitch to the troika last Wednesday and impressed officials with its proposals, the Irish Independent understands.

It is understood that management has been informed that its pitch was successful.

A spokesman for the bank last night declined to comment.

A spokesman for the Department of Finance confirmed that the Government had committed to "agree a way forward for PTSB by the end of April 2012".

"The sixth review of the programme will conclude tomorrow and, as per previous reviews, a press conference will be held and the changes agreed to the Memorandum of Understanding will be outlined," the spokesman added.

[bongo bwana] 25/4/2012 09:32

The share price in Ireland trading yesterday saw the price advance by a one whole cent from 3 to 4c.

So, IPM has a pulse?

[loverat] 25/4/2012 06:04

Thanks investorpesant:

This is probably the best piece of advice for people who hold shares in this company...



Remain vigilant – if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is!


Or perhaps this advice should be included also:

If it sounds so bad it cannot possibly be true - it probably is!

[investorpesant] 24/4/2012 20:15

beware beware lol.
someone could steal your investment,are these lot havin a tin bath.

[cudman] 24/4/2012 10:29

Q&A in the Irish Times

[shareho1der] 19/4/2012 14:13

Loverat.
If you bought in before 1st april 2011, then it's a good idea to join the legal action against the irish government.
Personally, my average here is too low and not worth getting involved in something that has 20% chance of sucess (according to my irish friend, a lawyer in Dublin).
If you believe in irish economic recovery and the survival of this bank, you will hold this stock.
I am assured the Troika is in charge and they will make a fair decision about this Bank in the next few weeks.

But what do I know ? ...... DYOR.

[loverat] 19/4/2012 05:15

Indeed. A CEO merely carrying out his fiduciary duties on behalf of shareholders perhaps?

Oh I forgot - the government own this company now.

[shareho1der] 18/4/2012 22:05

Good to have a vocal uncompromising CEO who is prepared to defy the government;

[shareho1der] 17/4/2012 08:58

one share bought and share price up 5.71% ........ lol

[uggly buggly] 15/4/2012 13:58

zastas, good posts. Really unfair what happened here, and I just hope we all get some of our money back elsewhere.

[shareho1der] 06/4/2012 16:17

investorpesant
If the government want to sell out, they must have had investors lined up imo. they just can not dump the shares on the market but again nothing is impossible with this erratic government.
The sooner they get their greedy hand out of this bank, the better for the taxpayers and shareholders.

[zastas] 06/4/2012 09:16

And I can add that if the IG wanted to make IPM, and then others too, instantly super profitable, it could have passed a law declaring all ECB base rate tracker contracts nil and void. Only the the BOE, FED and ECB's monetary extremism is largely responsible for the poor profitability of banks.

But that would affect a large number of mollycoddled debtor voters, and confiscating a minority is democratically more convenient.

[zastas] 06/4/2012 09:10

Good luck to Piotr.

The whole Irish Government action amounts to a simple expropriation. Backed by first its parliament, then the Judges and the fourth estate, the Irish journalists. For now it has stopped at equity capital and loans in the form of bonds, but it could do the same with any other assets, for instance all property owned by foreigners. Only gunboats can stop the kind of internally legalised robbery that we see practised in Greece and Ireland.

So now Irish Life can suddenly easily be separated from the bank part. I always wondered why it wasn't split off earlier, before March 2011. The directors then had some feeble excuse, I remember. If the directors had done their fiduciary duty to the legal owners, they would have preserved much of IPM's value for them.

IPM has only been expropriated because the Irish government was unable to borrow anymore. Then Blackrock and the EU ordered it to re-capitalise its banks, including mixed IPM. If, if IPM had run out of cash, for instance because the IG and ECB would stop lending it through its Central Bank etc, and if it would enter administration, the IG would have been justified buying it out of admin, if only for peanuts.

But, just as in the UK with NRK and B&B, it, in the name of wider financial stability , did not want to apply normal business practise, and confiscated by the above process of forced recapitalisation, after thrashing the market value, at a shareprice way below the stated NAV, which is already excessively reduced by non-realised but provisioned losses.

Anyone ever lending/investing money to the likes of Ireland, Greece and similar suspects, better make sure tthat the contract is signed in your own country, under US, German, Dutch or probably UK law, and invest in Gunboats at the same time. If necessary, we then can come and fetch what the locals own us, and some unfortunate expropriated locals too.

[investorpesant] 06/4/2012 08:25

the excisting capital after the 1.4bn losses is 2.75bn,with the 1.0bn recognised from the LME and the procceeds from irish life 1.3bn total 5.05bn,RWA 15.4bn that would give it a CT1 of 32% probally the highest in the world.thats even after they front loaded there losses for 2011.

still trying to work out the diabolical end game the goverment have,for getting there money back plus more.

[loverat] 05/4/2012 22:22

I've often wondered why the government did not just offer shareholders a few million quid. Its going to cost them as much being tied up in all this litigation.

I see the share price seems to have gone down a bit. I might buy some more next week.

[loverat] 05/4/2012 22:10

Well, he is right about the Irish press being in the pocket of the government. Quite an unhealthy relationship.

Anyway - a good article and good luck in his appointment. If the other directors had been doing their jobs I doubt we'd be in this mess. Still, have some sympathy for Piotr - must be quite a challenge working with such an inept and useless bunch of fools.