Woodford Patient Capital Share Discussion Threads

[topvest] 21/10/2019 21:15

He's not a pleasant individual that's for sure, but he's quite funny sometimes and definitely worth listening to. Avoid anything he's getting his teeth into!

[topvest] 21/10/2019 21:10

Panorama was OK, but failed to quite explain how this happened with the increasing proportion of illiquid investments. Think this is going to have big implications for open-ended funds, and rightly so as they are nowhere near as well protected as investment trusts where there is a functioning independent board of directors. Obviously with WPCT the board were weak and not entirely independent and so were at least a year behind the game.

TW was interviewed several times and came over quite well. He didn't even swear or be rude...wonder how many takes they had to do! No, TW has done a great service in uncovering the wrong doings of Woodford, and I think he deserves credit. I was correct as well, along with many other on this BB, but I think the record will show that TW was first to find it and the most ruthless and accurate on the wrongdoings, which were frequent and significant.

[diku] 21/10/2019 21:02

Rock star fund manager!...

[jonwig] 21/10/2019 20:25

IH Holdings delivered its accounts to 31/12/18 today. The pdf is not yet on display.

[spectoacc] 21/10/2019 16:35

Just to be clear - by trackers I was including ETFs (as some are, and some aren't). You can track a phenomenal range of both markets and strategies, eg low volatility, high or low beta, ESG, bonds, gilts, factors. Admittedly if you were coming to it fresh, you'd likely need advice, but on costs alone, they're all hard to beat IMO.

[jonwig] 21/10/2019 16:18

Spec - the point about four 'risk levels' as mentioned, is that trackers have market volatility. They would be 3/4 on the CS scale, though you wouldn't need CS of course!

We opted for 2/4, and we have infrastructure, low-vol funds, ITs such as PNL, RCP, CTY. (The point of the exercise was that I'm getting old and want my wife to be able to transfer the rest easily.)

[spectoacc] 21/10/2019 15:57

"tobacco, Woodford..." Lol.

Personally I don't think you can beat low cost trackers for anything you don't want to manage yourself.

[jonwig] 21/10/2019 15:54

EJ - as I think I've said, we moved a part of our portfolio to CS about four years ago, and chose discretionary (it is cheaper than advisory).

They have four risk grades and you can list whole areas where you don't want them to invest, eg. tobacco, Woodford, open-ended funds, etc. So far it's worked OK. The contrast with HL's Procrustean approach is huge!

[skinny] 21/10/2019 13:28

What an eloquent post - not.

[spectoacc] 21/10/2019 13:14

Will of course be interesting to see what gets returned from WEIF, once BlackRock have had their fees, & the Unicorns & microcaps sold. At least the housebuilders are doing well (for the moment).

[jonwig] 21/10/2019 12:30

CC2014 - yes, I think he must have been.

In WEIF over 4 years, capital loss 30%, income taken 25%, initial charge 5% (if levied) just comes to 60%.

[dr biotech] 21/10/2019 12:13

I was in WEIF and WPCT - had over sized positions in the former but sold out a couple of years ago when I realised he’d lost the plot.

Taking responsibility both ways. I know that perhaps most of us are the exception in the amount of interest we take. Depends on how much the average person is interest and how much they are happy to take advice.

If HL had advised EJ to put his lump sum into Woodford that may be the basis of a claim?

[cc2014] 21/10/2019 11:49

You are correct about the Wealth funds Jonwig. HL were of course still pushing WPCT.

8,000 left out of 23,000 is 34.7%

WEIF peaked at 130 and bottomed at 70 so that's 53.8% left



I conclude he must have been in WPCT

[jonwig] 21/10/2019 11:22

CC2014 - weren't the 'Wealth' choices funds, not companies like WPCT? HL don't charge a platform fee for ITs.

It's possible this guy took out the income, which at 5% pa would be a drain on top of WEIF's capital loss and about 2% of charges. He doesn't say he has lost £15,000.

[cc2014] 21/10/2019 10:46

#10987

Hargreaves’ customers for the most part choose their own investments, but many turned to the Wealth 50 list, marketed by the company as “what we believe to be the best funds across all the major sectors for new investment”.

Neil, a 44-year-old Hargreaves customer whose initial £23,000 investment in Woodford funds has fallen to about £8,000, said he was “interested in knowing my options with regards to a legal claim”. He said he would be calling on the Financial Conduct Authority and his MP to push for regulatory changes.



The issue here is this is just lousy journalism I think. The article talks about Weatlh 50 but then uses Neil as an example. He's lost 65% of his investment so he must be in WPCT as WEIF and WIFF don't have those sorts of losses.

But WPCT was never part of the Wealth50.

I don't know but I'd be pretty sure it was part of the Wealth 150 but surely we are not expecting HL to provide 150 winners out of 150?

[eeza] 21/10/2019 10:20

Barnett under the cosh next?