William Sinclair Share Discussion Threads

[my retirement fund] 10/6/2015 09:49

about £1500 an acre tops !

deduct 10% for sale costs

[rachmanninov] 10/6/2015 08:45

How much s the land in Lincoln worth?
Enough to wipe the balance sheet clean?

[castleford tiger] 09/6/2015 16:46

heard and its not confirmed KPMG are in doing some work.
The more I investigate the more bad news I find.

on a scale of 1/ 100 to go bust I rate this now as 98.

Tiger

[coolen] 06/6/2015 20:40

Look at the CV of the new director (RNS of 26 May).

The word "peat" occurs once;
The word "administration" occurs thrice.

[castleford tiger] 04/6/2015 08:36

We have had tens of millions in excp costs I thought all this was done?

clearly not.

ouch another big hit.

I don't think this can make it without pre-pack

tiger

[nocton] 03/6/2015 17:35

Just as I suggested would happen.

[clocktower] 03/6/2015 14:35

That said, it is better news for small stakeholders as it suggests they are not going down the route of a pre-pack but maybe seeking ways to restore stakeholder value.

They might be able to raise the funds they need and sales of the product from Ellesmere might be starting to pick up.

[my retirement fund] 03/6/2015 13:41

Makes little difference really as they still look technically insolvement imo.

If anything just another headache as they may have to find extra money to pay redundancy payments, where as if they went into a pre-pack administration they would not.

[jbfnfn] 03/6/2015 13:37

Is this good or bad for the share price?

From Horticulture Week 2nd June.

Sinclair redundancies as centralising starts at Ellesmere Port
2 June 2015, by Matthew Appleby,

William Sinclair Horticulture is closing plants to relocate at its new £50m base in Cheshire, with almost 100 job losses proposed.
.
.
.
Some 74 jobs will be lost at Lincoln (across two sites) plus nine at Bolton Fell, three at Astley Moss and 20 at Ellesmere Port.

... a 45 day consultation started on 1 June.

[castleford tiger] 01/6/2015 15:22

key word there............
ASSUMING.

Tiger

[jbfnfn] 31/5/2015 13:25

At some point the Unaudited Interim Results for the six months ended 31 March 2015 have to be produced. Normally this happens in June for this company.

With a new CEO and FD since last year there is every incentive to kitchen sink this set of accounts. However the new FD doesn't have much time to do it.

Assuming they can get enough cash to live, surely we must be near bottom.

[nocton] 30/5/2015 08:03

However, there is a new development here. DEFRA has finally started to look at the issue of sustainability. A new points system is being developed and evaluated by RHS and the Growing Media Association. As I understand it, all growing media will have to show its sustainability index based on energy usage, water usage, social factors, habitat and biodiversity, renewability, pollution. The Sinclair product will/does come out well ahead of peat-based products. If Sinclair can hang on I think that they will be in a strong position when the public and hence plant suppliers demand products which are more sustainable - after all the extra cost is quite small. I expect that by about 2020 it will not be possible to sell peat-based composts. For my gardening, I have used New Horizon for several years with excellent results - although a little more expensive I find it is actually better than the cheaper, peat-based composts.

[castleford tiger] 29/5/2015 20:42

It's not so cost effective as haulage kills it

[pugugly] 29/5/2015 09:11

CT: I suspect you have just put the final nail in the coffin. How about supplies of eastern european peat as well ?

[castleford tiger] 29/5/2015 08:28

Nocton

We handle 400 tonnes of product for our growers. As you say its no good for the commercial operation.
In our retail operation sales of blended old style product are approx. 40 loads a year x 26 pals
Currently they are 100% old style.
The sector is still very dependant on price promotions and plenty of cheaper Irish peat based comes to this UK market.
companies like Growmore and Durstons have grown their market share over the last two years.

Tiger

[nocton] 29/5/2015 07:14

"The biggest issue I see is that the peat free compost made from green waste is not that good. Repeat orders are reducing as peat based composts are still available."
This is not quite true, but may be part of the problem. The government and organisations like the Environment Agency and the Royal Horticultural Society have encouraged everyone to stop using peat, which after all only came in to big use with the rise of garden centres and 'instant gardening'. The Sinclair product is excellent and for the home gardener just as good as peat. For the professional grower it is not quite the same as peat and may be more difficult to use. BUT at present it is more expensive as you can see in any garden centre. The government had indicated it would legislate to phase out peat, but it has not done. So while peat is cheaper and the general public have not shunned peat-containing products as hoped, things may be difficult for Sinclair. In principle the product should be cheaper than peat as it is made from 'waste' materials, but this is where the manufacturing process efficiency becomes important. We shall see ..

[rachmanninov] 28/5/2015 15:08

I have the feeling that things may not be quite as they are being
projected.

[castleford tiger] 28/5/2015 14:02

Rach
Of course you are right.

I am assuming they have spent or WILL spend up to the limit ( and still not have enough) to see them through.
Basically that's what they are saying .

clearly Ginger raising capital from sale of excess properties is a good and quite normal step.
Following that sale and lease back of the others is possible.
Remember tho they had 12 million paid to them last year and 3 went in excp items and the other 9 into the black hole.

the underlying business is my concern I am not sure its making money.

tiger

[pugugly] 28/5/2015 10:42

CT: very fair summary If the product was as good as or better than peat based composts (the jury still appears to be out on this one) then management MIGHT be able to trade their way out of this hole but would be a multi year job. Also suggest need to read the rns re new interim CFO very carefully and check previous timelines re IGR.

As always DYOR

[rachmanninov] 28/5/2015 10:31

Spent...I mean?

[rachmanninov] 28/5/2015 09:10

Furthermore your calcs project debt as money spent...
Is it?

[gingerplant] 28/5/2015 09:09

Castleford T "The directors are considering a number of strategic options which may include raising capital,"

- won't they raise more cash (at a discount of course) in exchange for promising to dispose of Lincoln properties / other assets? Or is it that they simply cannot trade profitably and will go into admin?