Wasps 22 Discussion Threads

[pusb] 08/12/2022 08:02

Apologies, I haven’t seen WHL proposal. Still concerned though, Trustee needs to get involved. As I said, PRL could pull a fast one - I suppose depends on the mechanism for pulling P share back.

[bondholder] 08/12/2022 06:56

P17 of the WHL proposal. Checked it again. Definitely says the loan is non preferential alongside ordinary trade creditors Sport England 14.076 million

[pusb] 08/12/2022 01:32

Bondholder - that the proposal for ACL. P share related to Wasps Holdings. Premier rugby may be trying to pull a fast one.

[bondholder] 07/12/2022 23:02

Just checked and on p17 of the administrators proposal the Sport England loan of 14m is listed as an unsecured debt which ranks at the bottom of the priority ranking. No dividend expected.

[pusb] 07/12/2022 21:56

Ozzie dog - it was a Post Script (PS), then from the Telegraph article. Sorry to have confused.

[bondholder] 07/12/2022 21:02

It may be that in the case of Worcester DCMS are a senior creditor

[barondene] 07/12/2022 20:04

Wasps and Worcester’s Premiership rivals are to seize the clubs’ ‘P shares’ following confirmation of their relegation to the Championship next season.

Premiership Rugby said the stricken sides’ administrators and prospective new owners had been informed of the 11 remaining top-flight teams’ intent to strip them of the shares worth £9.8 million apiece.

There had been pleas for those teams to show mercy and not forcibly purchase the P shares, which see lucrative Premiership revenues distributed among those who hold them.

But the Rugby Football Union’s decision to reject applications from Wasps and Worcester not to impose automatic relegation on them for entering administration triggered what had long been regarded as an inevitable seizure.

Premiership Rugby chief executive Simon Massie-Taylor told the Daily Telegraph: “We can confirm it’s our clubs’ intent to buy the P share and they do so knowing that Wasps and Worcester are going to be in the Championship next season.

“Both clubs’ prospective purchasers have also produced three-to-five-year plans which are not contingent on the P share.”

The near-£20m cost of buying the P shares will be used to pay off Government loans given to Wasps and Worcester during the coronavirus crisis.

With 11 mouths to feed instead of 13, Premiership Rugby is expected to hand out roughly an extra £250,000 a year to each of its clubs, although that could be offset slightly by them having two fewer home matches a season.

The seizing of the P shares was criticised by Worcester’s joint administrator, Julie Palmer, of Begbies Traynor.

She said: “PRL represents the clubs that form the league. So, effectively, you’ve got the investor group making a decision on the exercise on the call option on the P share.

“I think that’s a conflict of interest because they’re exercising a decision to exercise the call option and pick up the P share as cheaply as that benefits them.

“But the thing that shouldn’t be lost sight of here is we’re trying to achieve a rescue but we’re trying to achieve the best outcome for creditors, not least DCMS.

“It’s taxpayers’ money we’re talking about here, which was used to bail out a league that appeared to be in crisis during the pandemic.”

There were also fears yesterday that efforts to rescue Warriors could be under threat over demands being made of the club’s prospective American owners by the Rugby Football Union.

Palmer refused to stoke such fears but did brand the RFU “a roadblock” to progress, saying: “They seem to have done a complete about-turn in terms of being incredibly light touch with tests for who was allowed to buy a club in the past to now, we think, being fairly onerous in terms of information that they’re asking.

“It’s US money, so some of the things they’re asking for, which might be available in the UK, aren’t necessarily available in the US.

“But we know the purchaser’s engaged with them and is hopefully reaching a position where they’re agreeing exactly what can and will be provided and what will satisfy the RFU. And there’s a very active dialogue going on there.

“That’s part of the reason why we’ve decided not to pursue the appeal against relegation, even though we felt we had grounds to do so. Because, in appealing the decision, what we would’ve then done is just delayed the process even further.”

A deadline of Monday has been set by the RFU for the sale of both Wasps and Worcester to be completed but Palmer said that had become impossible to meet.

The RFU, which was awaiting audited accounts from the company bidding for Warriors before deciding whether to approve a takeover, said it was prepared to grant “some flexibility” on the deadline.

But it added: “We do require full information to be provided in order that the necessary oversight and scrutiny can take place.”

[ozzie_dog] 07/12/2022 19:56

That is also my understanding Bondholder, pusb could you please clarify where that comes from please? Who is Ps?

[bondholder] 07/12/2022 19:27

Bond (secured) was issued before gov loans.

[pusb] 07/12/2022 19:18

Ps says proceeds will be used to pay off government loans.

[bondholder] 07/12/2022 19:17

Premiership Rugby chief executive Simon Massie-Taylor told the Telegraph Sport: "We can confirm it's our clubs' intent to buy the P share and they do so knowing that Wasps and Worcester are going to be in the Championship next season.

[pusb] 07/12/2022 19:12

Telegraph article says teh P shares are to be returned to PRL by both Wasps and Worcester, valued at £9.8m each. We know where the proceeds have to go.

[ozzie_dog] 07/12/2022 09:19

Has any indication of an approximate timescale been given for eventual payment to the bondholders? Perhaps consideration of an interim payment should be considered, if the £13,5m (not including anything for the P shares which may or may not be additional monies to come) is an accurate estimate of what the pot of money is, this equates to over 37.5p in the pound, surely they could pay something like 20 to 25p in the pound as an interim payment in the near future?

[pusb] 06/12/2022 17:05

Wasps claim for no fault insolvency turned down and relegation confirmed. New ownership needs to be in place by 12 December and rugby creditors repaid for Wasps to be admitted to championship. A decision on P shares must surely come soon.

[bondholder] 05/12/2022 18:25

In the latest Q and a from FRP the administrators they refer to the WHL portal. Has anybody found the link to this?

[pusb] 01/12/2022 08:45

At some point Wasps Holdings, holder of the P share, will also be reported on.

[1bolivar] 30/11/2022 18:58

Apologies - looks like I jumped the gun a bit! You are indeed correct which is better news. Sorry for the misinformation.

[l2s] 30/11/2022 18:25

1bolivar - Although I haven't read all 110 pages(yet!) what I have found is that there both ACL 2006 and ACL 2022 are involved and each has a separate notice. Your 6.5m only relates to one of them there is another 7.4m relating to the other! However, don't spend it all just yet as this is only an estimate and doesn't take everything, including the costs of the administration, into account. The wheels will grind very slowly even if they do say they will distribute the funds "as soon as possible".

[1bolivar] 30/11/2022 17:31

So according to a mail just received from Laurence Griffiths it appears we are in line for 6.5m i.e. 18.57p in the £. Of course I'm sure this will drag on for months whilst the professionals accrue more fees. No idea when we will get this 18.5% of par but feel we have been well and truly stitched up.

[pusb] 29/11/2022 11:25

Well, Wasps supporters certainly don’t think the value of the P shares should benefit bondholders, just concerned about a rapid return of nouveau Wasps to the PRL.

[ozzie_dog] 25/11/2022 08:25

Head of Premier Rugby limited (PRL) Massie-Taylor talks about the P shares (PRL can force the sale of the P shares):



Massie-Taylor insisted letting Worcester and Wasps hold onto their P shares would send out a bad example to its current teams.

Massie-Taylor said: "P shares are not a perpetual right.

"When you get relegated and fail to come up after a second year, those P shares can be acquired off you, so all clubs as part of their shareholder agreement sign up to pre-emption rights where if a club goes into administration, the P shares can be acquired off them by the other clubs.

"Wasps and Worcester have knowingly signed up to this. While I completely understand the emphasis that some potential bidders wanted to retain that asset within the administration process while getting rid of as many liabilities as possible in terms of debt, I don't think that is a particularly strong message to send to the rest of our clubs that essentially you can go into administration and retain assets while getting rid of liabilities."

[kb68] 23/11/2022 12:37

Anyone heard anymore?

[mills8] 18/11/2022 10:25

I think that we (collectively) should contact Premiership Rugby Limited and/or the wasps administrator to ask them what they intend to do about the P shares, bearing in mind that they were secured on the Wasps bond, so the value of those P shares should be sold to compensate the bond holders (obviously the wording needs to be refined).

Remember that the notice to the bond holders stated in paragraph 4 that the stadium would be sold 'as if' it was not subject to security, and then went on to state 'repayment of the liabilities which are secured' and the P shares (as well as the stadium) are/were also a security of the bond.

But what does everyone else think? If we do this we might at least learn what the situation regarding the P shares is.

[mills8] 18/11/2022 08:58

Well that's good, if true, it will be just over 38.75p in the pound (£13.5m/£35m = 0.387514285) and not 30p as reported in some articles.

Don't worry Bondholder, I know that you are not disagreeing with me, we are just bouncing ideas off each other, I think that it very is important that all us bondholders establish if anything can be done.

I am wondering if the bondholders could issue a winding up order on the wasps company that owns the P shares, to force the sale of them? Or maybe negotiate a deal with wasps where they pay us a dividend on the value of the P shares. I would rather just have the cash, as I do not trust wasps, but a dividend might be another option.