Wasps 22 Discussion Threads

[ozzie_dog] 30/10/2022 15:21

@Stevros, Aren't the P shares also a charge on the stadium for the bond holders.

[stevros] 30/10/2022 14:57

So if the rumours are true that the Wasps rescue deal on the table does NOT include the ACL company (not yet in full administration just NOI) then is the P Share (& sale of) going with the rugby club or with the CBS? If it goes with tge rugby club then it's one less asset that could help bondholders get their money back

[mistt] 30/10/2022 14:53

CCFC are thought to be paying 600k pa for rental, hard to see how a renewed ACL could charge two tenants differently. And whilst how a club is run in terms of squad size, transfers and wages comes into the equation, CCFC are averaging 18k plus attendance, whereas it must be below 5k paying attendance for Wasps, and that's in the Prem. Hard to see how Wasps could keep playing there.

[ozzie_dog] 30/10/2022 09:38

Thanks Bondholder, good news for Wasps, but as I said below, I can't see how a championship Wasps could afford to continue playing in the CBS stadium, but maybe they have enough funds and a strong enough side to fund 1/2 years rent and win promotion, but that seems like too high a risk to me to be a viable business plan. So, I am wondering if this could offer any advantage for us bondholders to receive (or some of) our investment back? Or would it not help us in any way, or am I missing something obvious?

Maybe if Wasps have no future at the stadium, it clears the way for DR to sell the stadium.

What I have no idea about is, could Wasps be allowed to play in the championship by the Rugby governing body if they somehow ended up defaulting on the bond?

[bondholder] 30/10/2022 06:49

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2022/10/29/consortium-former-wasps-players-close-takeover-deal/?utm_content=rugby&utm_medium=Social&utm_campaign=Echobox&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1667075533

[pusb] 29/10/2022 22:36

hxxps://archive.ph/A9DIM

[pusb] 29/10/2022 22:35

hxxps://archive.ph/A9DIM

[bondholder] 28/10/2022 19:15

The Premiership is set to activate its right to buy its P share from Worcester for 9.8 million, based on an agreed formula, with the money used to pay off creditors. Diamond believes that is fair, and his plan can survive without that central funding."It would be great if we kept the P share but there's got to be some onus and accountability on the previous owners," he said of Colin Goldring and Jason Whittingham, who ran the club into the ground. "It's unfair to put the business into administration, clear a load of debt and start again.Direct quote from the Times today.

[grahamg8] 28/10/2022 16:30

Same Worcester story covered by BBC on No mention of £9.8m for P shares that I could see. The more that can be salvaged from Wasps Rugby the less needs to be found from a sale of the Stadium in order for Bond holders to get a full payout with interest. Not fuxxed yet.

[mistt] 28/10/2022 11:54

There's also a rumour that there's one bid on the table, but that is what it is, rumour, rather than better placed sources as above.

[mistt] 28/10/2022 11:49

CWR reporter on twitter. Same also reported that ccfc have had to pay a significant amount to keep this week's game on. CCFC reportedly looking at options if admin early next week

[ozzie_dog] 28/10/2022 11:37

@mistt If that is genuine please provide a link, if it is not, and you are just passing off your opinions as facts, then all you are doing is making the situation worse by spreading rumours. We should use this forum to help each other by sharing genuine information.

[bigfish1] 28/10/2022 10:09

Where did you hear that?

[mistt] 28/10/2022 08:43

Hearing news of companies at CBS Arena clearing desks ahead of ACL admin next week.

[bondholder] 28/10/2022 08:08

The Premiership is set to activate its right to buy its "P share" from Worcester for £9.8 million, based on an agreed formula, with the money used to pay off creditors. Diamond believes that is fair, and his plan can survive without that central funding.Also in the article today. Interesting.

[bondholder] 28/10/2022 07:55

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/steve-diamond-launches-consortium-bid-to-buy-worcester-warriors-fsgdd830dNot directly about Wasps but further evidence that the appetite to own Rugby clubs/stadiums has not gone away

[cc2014] 27/10/2022 07:56

I wonder why the bond holders are being asked to pay for the marketing?

DR must know the bondholders are a disperate group of individuals and they won't do so partly because how would you ever get them to agree to it. His view might be that the Trustee would agree to this on behalf on the bondholders but this seems to miss the point that the Trustee is reluctant to do anything as he isn't being instructed by a majority of bondholders

Shortly I think the whole Wasps financial struture will collapse and then the Trustee won't need instruction from bondholders. His duty will be to ensure enforcement of the security and the sale of it. Regrettably I suspect it's sale value in this economic environment will be disappointing

[bondholder] 27/10/2022 07:39

Stevros you are not distinguishing between secured and unsecured creditors.The arena is subject to a first mortgage in favour of the trustees for the bondholders. The P shares sale proceeds are subject to a fixed charge again in favour of the trustees.Unsecured creditors only get paid if there are surplus funds.

[stevros] 27/10/2022 07:24

It's reported that between the Wasps companies the total debt is above the £90million mark. So it's not a case of selling the P shares and the stadium and the combined funds being paid to the bond holders. If the sale of those two things makes just £40million I'd be surprised if the bondholders get anywhere near the full bond redemption value.

[fastcat99] 26/10/2022 17:24

I reiterate my comments #1204

DR is still the Ultimate shareholder; but he is clearly no longer prepared to play the role he has been attributed in ALL previous official statements. Gamekeeper turned poacher is very dangerous.
"The Group, their advisers and the potential administrators" have to take responsibility for their decisions; the Trustee's Notice of 24 October was a masterpiece of special pleading and disingenuous 'honest'-broking.
Surely US Bank's main concern at the moment is full legal indemnity (ie much more than straightforward "prefunding to its satisfaction") for any remotely questionable action it might take on its own initiative;
BUT if the dividend is (very likely) not paid on 13 November, and the full group is not yet in compulsory liquidation (this is only two weeks away, remember), I DO think the Trustee could be pressed (legally compelled) to enforce terms...

[grahamg8] 26/10/2022 16:47

And yet we have been repeatedly told that there were plenty of potential buyers and the sale price would be sufficient to repay the bonds in full and all the interest due. This assumed Wasps would continue and so any funding from the P shares was excluded. Either we were lied to before, or lied to now, or Richardson has done a magnificent job of destroying value. Take your pick.

[bigfish1] 26/10/2022 16:38

Stories leaking out where?? Unless you have heard something concrete I'm hoping that possible buyers are waiting for administration because DR is asking a silly price. I think the liquidation thing is a threat to get money to avoid administration. I hope I'm right!

[ozzie_dog] 26/10/2022 16:10

@barondene, have you read that somewhere, or is that just your worst case scenario?

[dandigirl] 26/10/2022 15:48

I fear that DR is muddying the waters by trying to get a deal that is best for him.

The sooner the better he leaves the scene.