Wasps 22 Discussion Threads

[barondene] 12/11/2022 11:36

That's ok - I thought it was the crowd funding link

[fastcat99] 12/11/2022 11:32

@barondene and @trader444 many, many thanks for the immediate interest ! and yes, apart from the typo on the FB page, everything I have posted is based on fact, and quotes public sources.

I am checking with colleagues - in principle, our system is based on official preauthentification, as I tried to explain above, but we certainly don't want to turn good money away! More a bit later

With regard to Simon Gilbert:- his interest and ALL quality publicity are always welcome; I know he reads this bulletin board anyway, but if anyone wants to draw his attention to these posts, that's all grist to the mill

[l2s] 12/11/2022 11:19

Having seen the Interactive Investor 'Voting slip' with its closure date of 1:59pm yesterday and nothing to vote on I suspect that they have no idea what is going on but felt obliged to communicate with the bondholders. They might be regretting that this is one weekend when the website is not 'unavailable' as all they are doing is annoying their clients.

[juh4] 12/11/2022 11:15

Bondholders will have legal representation at the hearing on Thursday.

100+ bondholders have already signed up to have them represented, and a law firm has been engaged.

A crowdfunding link will be shared soon.

Bondholders who have not already done already, please consider joining the rest. The cost are shared on a proportional basis and currently stand at 0.6% of nominal holdings. The cost will fall further as more people join.

[barondene] 12/11/2022 11:04

You sure Fastcat?

[barondene] 12/11/2022 10:48

Is there a link to the "crowdfunding" site

After yesterdays revalations there might be people in Coventry & Henley who might like to contribute

Or pehaps Simon might publicise?

[top_barman] 12/11/2022 10:36

Received an email this morning from II to say there was something to vote on re WASPS, but with a latest date for voting of YESTERDAY. Have sent II a message that I am not happy at all.

[trader444] 12/11/2022 10:18

Where do I find the crowdfunding page?

[fastcat99] 12/11/2022 09:43

Interactive Investor has posted tokenistic nonsense about Thursday 10:30. In reality this is not at all an "information meeting" - it's actually a High Court hearing: application to appoint Administrators for the two Arena Companies; full details in the Trustee Notice on Thursday (which it would have been MUCH more helpful to publish than this optionless and misleading Meeeting button nonsense)
In that Trustee Notice it is revealed that Administrators may ALSO apply for power to sell Assets (ie the lease) "free and clear of the security interests comprised under the terms of the Security Deed" (in other words, the WF Bond guarantee). As things stand, the anciliary application to that effect has not yet been filed; but it could be at any coming moment.
This is the legal wrapping for the classic Prepack deal - Ashley attempting to buy the Stadium (at a so-far undisclosed price), without WF Bondholders' approval.
Bondholders are taking legal action to ensure this does not go through unchallenged - approximately 80 of us (so far) are crowdfunding, each at cost of LESS THAN 1% (of our individual nominal value) to have legal standing next Thursday (which NO AMOUNT of button-pressing or emailing broker platforms will achieve).

[barondene] 12/11/2022 08:49

PUSB - will enquire on the shares position

I think WASPs are challenging the buyback - or were and not sure of current status

The rumoured deal for the Arena includes Richardson and possibly WASPs (in some firmat)

[kb68] 12/11/2022 07:08

I have been sent details by my broker of an Information Only Meeting November 17th
10:30 am in London.

[pusb] 11/11/2022 23:17

Barondene - I guess the price offered for the shell of Wasps Holdings would/ should depend on whether P shares are retained. Certainly reflected in a previous offer which was withdrawn when PRL said they would be buying them back. One way or another, the value of P shares should be available - unless a fast one is pulled.

[pusb] 11/11/2022 23:12

Barondene- I think there are other shares in PRL as well as the P shares and it may have been those other shares which were “sold”. As I recall there were no special arrangements to our such proceeds aside for the security if the binds.

[barondene] 11/11/2022 17:11

11 Nov '22 - 10:53 - 1285 of 1291
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Fair point about Going Concern valuation - but I believe published Accounts are so out of date, we still don't know the value of the CCFC lease, or even the CBS sponsorship, let alone other-use tenancies negotiated post-Covid.

The value of the CCC lease will based on future rental income - so not hard to work out. However a figure of some sort must have been reflected in past valuations

Could a "new Wasps" obviously playing outside the PRL, and with no immediate prospect, let alone certainty, of promotion be allowed to keep on holding P shares indefinitely?

See my other post

What does 'the proceeds of the initial sale of £14m' refer to ?? If barondene means the 2015 financing, he really didn't understand the most basic points in the Prospectus !

I fully understand the prospectus - sadly I do not think the majority of Bondholders did or do. See mine and PUSB's comments.

[barondene] 11/11/2022 17:06

I question how the Phoenix WASPS can acquire the P Shares from the existing owners without buing them?

[barondene] 11/11/2022 17:04

CVC acquired a 27% stake and WASPS received approx £14m

Logically they must have disposed ( sold ? ) of part of their Capital Holding

I only asked the question!

[pusb] 11/11/2022 14:52

The Times has published an article today saying that Richardson vetoes a £60 million deal with Hottinger that would have seen bondholders, HMRC and others repaid. But presumably not Richardson himself.

[pusb] 11/11/2022 12:48

Further to P shares, the Wasps Phoenix entity may wish to keep them but if PRL want them back alongside the current plan to reduce the competition to 10 teams, I’m not sure how a legal challenge against PRL could be mounted with any reasonable justification or on any moral basis.

[pusb] 11/11/2022 11:58

Further hxxps://www.premiershiprugby.com/2018/12/20/premiership-rugby-confirm-new-partnership-with-cvc-capital-partners/

If the share of income to clubs was to decrease, I’m not sure how the accounts could increase the book value if the P shares in their accounts. No wonder auditors were twitchy.

[pusb] 11/11/2022 11:54

I think Barondene may be referring to the CVC investment which was made in exchange for some of the central PRL income distributed via P shares. At this point, I’m not sure whether it was an actual purchase of P shares or not. If it was, Barondene has a good if somewhat moot point, moot in the money has already gone in support of Wasps annual losses.

[fastcat99] 11/11/2022 10:53

Fair point about Going Concern valuation - but I believe published Accounts are so out of date, we still don't know the value of the CCFC lease, or even the CBS sponsorship, let alone other-use tenancies negotiated post-Covid.

Could a "new Wasps" obviously playing outside the PRL, and with no immediate prospect, let alone certainty, of promotion be allowed to keep on holding P shares indefinitely?

What does 'the proceeds of the initial sale of £14m' refer to ?? If barondene means the 2015 financing, he really didn't understand the most basic points in the Prospectus !!

[barondene] 11/11/2022 10:40

At this point could I comment that the "Accounts Valuations" would have been produced on a Going Concern Basis. They would include ( for example) the income derived from WASPS Rugby

I think it is referred to in the original valuation that there was no adjustment for dilapidations and essential upgrades - which I believe have not been carried out

On the question of the P Shares - I suspect the plan is not to sell them and thus form the basis of future income to WASPS Rugby. The BondHolders cannot force the sale as they have no charge on the asset only its sale proceeds.

You should now be raising with the Administrators why the proceeds of the initial sale of £14m ended up with WASPS HOLDINGS and not with the Trustee

[pusb] 11/11/2022 10:25

1bondinvestor- that’s pretty pompous. I’m sure the administrators are well aware of the Wasps commissioned valuations prepared to support Wasps accounts. They are probably also aware of the costs of the dilapidations and the size of the market for such a venue.