Wasps 22 Discussion Threads

[coley88] 14/11/2019 16:05

Perhaps they should make the players invest in the bond. It’s a good return and aligns good performance with good returns; if they start winning and get into Europe proper seat sales will go up so bond price will rebound

[a0002577] 14/11/2019 15:45

So has mine now!

[ditchsid] 14/11/2019 14:45

Interest received!

[watching2017] 13/11/2019 18:28

They had cash left over from the Share sale so it should not be a problem

How much is available now though might be another question

A quick look at the Cash Flow statement for last year shows it was leaking before then and there has not been much by way of income in the past few months

[a0002577] 13/11/2019 16:03

In theory (and usually in practice) the half year payment was/is due today 13th November - anyone else had it?

[ditchsid] 08/11/2019 15:23

watching2017 When you post a url capitalize one or more of the letters in https

hxxps://www.coventrytelegraph.net/sport/rugby/wasps-accounts-june-2019-17208784 doesn't work but

does

[watching2017] 07/11/2019 19:56

Replace the xx with tt

hxxps://www.rugbynetwork.net/boards/read/s96.htm?98,16661078


Not sure what happens here

The cash flow is positive because of the exceptional Share Sale £12m+ ( Page 36 Para 6 )

This is the local paper's take on events ( and they are very pro WASPS )

hxxps://www.coventrytelegraph.net/sport/rugby/wasps-accounts-june-2019-17208784

[coley88] 07/11/2019 19:17

Your link doesn’t work watching 2017

[watching2017] 07/11/2019 18:29

Really??

hxxps://www.rugbynetwork.net/boards/read/s96.htm?98,16661078,page=1

[a0002577] 07/11/2019 16:19

Actually it's quite an upbeat report -- surprisingly considering revenue was down and the one off benefit of a revaluation of their premiership stake. Seem to want to continue in business .

[watching2017] 06/11/2019 21:42

hxxps://www.wasps.co.uk/media/6375/wasps-holdings-limited-year-ended-30-jun-2019.pdf

[watching2017] 06/11/2019 21:41

The 2019 Accounts are online.. good job they had the PRL share sale

Wasps.co.uk

[watching2017] 02/11/2019 08:08

They do not have that many regular "fans" it is a known fact they give away more tickets than they sell for many games. However as they are packaged eg buy 4 for price of 1 they all count as sold. At a recent charity marathon every runner got a free ticket and if you wanted to by one they included 3 more.

The move away of the football club has affected their Revenues with F&B, Sponsorship and car parking so can easily see it being £2m a year

As I understand it the £50m valuation is not bricks and mortar but based on future income streams as forecasted by the Directors. If they "have" to sell it is unlikely to achieve the £50m as other factors will kick in eg repairs liabilities plus the lack of revenue from a major tenant.

As to refinancing even if the £50m is correct then commercially no one lends 100% on rental income property unless prime tenants. The obvious route would be to offer the Bond again to existing investors at a higher coupon rate.

All opinion of course and not intended to be any form of advice

[135791113] 01/11/2019 21:55

Most sports clubs are only solvent because of the support of the owner. Was it Exeter or Saracens the only rugby club in the Premiership to make money? I can't see the owner selling all these bonds (a vast majority which went to supporters), and then pulling the rug when the bonds come to expiry. To do so would lose so many fans that if the club wasn't done for already it would be soon after because all the supporters would leave.

I can easily see the recapitalisation being a problem, and I can even see Wasps having to sell and lease back the stadium in 2 years time if the finances are not looking better, but I don't see the bondholders taking a haircut, given that a £50m valuation should leave plenty of headroom to pay a £35m bond. The valuers would need to be wrong by over 25%, in which case the bondholders or company would have a good case for negligence or poor performance against the Valuers.

[coley88] 01/11/2019 10:59

If the CVC proceeds don't help stabilise the club but effectively go into the owners pockets by his subordinate loan claim or other transfers there may be a case for willfull defrauding of bond holders here by the owners of the club. It will come down to the auditors willingness to say the business is solvent at the time the proceeds from CVC are used. The banks willingness to provide continued funding is a circular part of this solvency question. Off course if the bond defaults in due course and there is a shortfall the money will be long gone even if there is a fraudulent preference claim..... The FCA should be onto the auditors and bank lenders and the company to avoid this happening. I am sure the owners want the club to succeed but when things are difficult and money is injected the temptation is their to improve the shareholder and creditor position. A subtle question of balanced governance on the Wasps Board to use the funds for the success of the company and all its stakeholders. Hopefully Mr Richardson will do the right thing

[135791113] 31/10/2019 10:25

Depends who you believe - Cov City think £2m in total, but their rent payments were only £100k. On top of that Wasps got all (/most?) of the revenue from pie and pints. Obviously Wasp's costs are lower if there are no football games - no staff if there are no football games etc.

[tightfist] 30/10/2019 14:50

Hi Watching;Thanks for that, this is what these BB's are for. Confirmatory extract from Wiki:"2019 – After failing to reach an agreement with Ricoh Arena owners Wasps RFC, the club commits to a groundsharing agreement with Birmingham City, playing their 2019-20 home fixtures at St Andrews Stadium (a 38 mile round-trip from Coventry), again much to the chagrin of the supporters."The valuation report includes a licence to CCFC, so they exited Ricoh after the valuation report was issued, as you say.What percentage of the Wasps income was derived from the CCFC ground-sharing licence? Anyway thanks for that, as a result I have got out of my small position position and will watch developments from the sidelines. tightfist

[watching2017] 29/10/2019 18:49

There is an updated Ground Valuation that has not been widely publicised

hxxps://www.wasps.co.uk/media/5623/ricoh-arena-final-valuation-report-2019-summary.pdf


All the previous hoorahs when the value went up have been tucked away.

Also the valuation excludes the exit of the Football Club that took place post report

[finkie] 29/10/2019 13:21

Sorry with this bunch at the helm your investment is way down the priority list, you won’t get paid back is my view. Or at best you will get a haircut so short that Kojak will look like Chewbacca!

You will know soon enough.....65p to sell doesn’t that suggest things might not be going terribly well...

[135791113] 28/10/2019 11:19

Most sports clubs in the country are supported by their owners, and this is no exception. I can't see him just letting the club go bust, and so he will refinance. The bond holders have security against the stadium too, which might be over-valued, might not be, but either way it is not worthless.

[finkie] 25/10/2019 08:20

£56m debt against ‘valuationR17; of £60m, probably way over valued so really bust already. 70p is a bargain (to get out at)

[finkie] 24/10/2019 14:50

Forget the running yield it’s a dog bond where holders are going to get royally stuffed. What’s the point in getting x% for 5 years if the bond turns out to be worthless and your 100p doesn’t return to you as promised by the nice men in the suits...

[tightfist] 21/10/2019 10:09

Maybe loosing against London Irish was too much for someone to take? I noted this in the half-year results to Dec 2018:"Subsequently, the Company revalued the Arena during the prior year, this was performed by professional valuers, Gerald Eve LLP as at 31 March 2017, and which valued the Arena leasehold interest at £60m. The valuation was carried out in accordance with RICS Appraisal and Valuation Standards. Management have prepared forecasts for future years which support the carrying value of the Arena in the current year and have no reason for the valuation amount to be changed or differ from its fair value. In the absence of level 1 and 2 information (prices based on quoted information), the valuation of the Arena has been based using the best information available to management (level 3). The next formal valuation is due in March 2019 and will be included in the 30 June 2019 year end accounts."What the interest charge will be upon refinancing the loan in 2022 must be guesswork. That's not our problem - the liquidity of the arena leasehold is a bigger risk?Cheers, tightfist