Wasps 22 Discussion Threads

[135791113] 21/10/2019 08:38

To me they looked cheap at £80; a 7.5% running yield and 12% yield to maturity in less than 2.5 years time. At £73 they're a bargain.

[135791113] 21/10/2019 08:36

Anyone know why there are reasonable volumes going through on the sell side? This cannot be a reaction to the loss against Irish yesterday, surely?

I know they're under investigation by the FCA, but given the bonds are backed by the arena, even if the owner of Wasps pulls his support and the company cannot refinance to pay the bondholders, the bond holders can liquidate the asset? I would expect that at maturity the Wasps club will simply refinance the debt.

[a0002577] 12/9/2019 11:32

Is the drop today a buying opportunity or a slashed wrist from a falling knife?

[a5042680] 06/8/2019 12:58

Rumours a major sponsor has pulled out (following the extradition of the football club from the City). Could be an interesting few months one way or another.

[a0002577] 18/4/2019 13:47

Well, TightFist, if there have been more misdeclarations of income then Wasps deserve a good kicking - if the FT and FCA are catching up on something that happened a year or more ago (more likely) - then ...

Yup it seems pretty well secured against an asset but look what happened to Notre Dame

[tightfist] 18/4/2019 09:44

IIRC there was coverage in the FT last Friday that the FCA were launching an investigation into market communications concerning Wasps, income (mis?)declarations and mention of a possible/avoided? covenant breach. Please check it out - may be inaccurate about the detail, but someone looks to have quickly dumped four tranches?I understood the Bonds were secured (at a substantial valuation discount) against the Ricoh Coventry stadium. Am I correct?

[a0002577] 15/4/2019 18:24

Yes, finkie, Still in - 4 sales f 25K seem to have caused the drop - wonder why they sold? No other reports except that Wasps are NOT doing well this season. kind regards - A000

[finkie] 15/4/2019 14:29

here we go.....that isnt a good sign today......87-89 A0002577 presume youre still in?

[a0002577] 12/11/2018 10:30

You can get the latest financial statements (released today) here : - seems OK to me with a pretty solid asset backing the bonds and they seem to be taking their covenants seriously at last

[a0002577] 18/5/2018 11:50

The cause of the wobble was a re-release of some old data - very few shares changed hands. Still pretty sanguine about it. - regards - A00

[finkie] 18/5/2018 11:35

its wobbling again, i just feel these clubs are at some point going to have issues and investors are the first port of call for a haircut or worse......

[a0002577] 02/1/2018 14:20

Not sure I follow you, Finkie.

In essence we all know that they are not going to be able to repay the loan note on the due date - they will either have to sell the asset on which it is secured - thereby destroying the club - or find some way of extending or renewing the loan note.

The facts that the valuation of the ground has increased, takings are on the up and they are very serious about providing an excellent leisure experience give me huge grounds for confidence - thus I added to my holding on the dip.

Not sure that A0002577 is a great name - it was automatically allocated by ADVFN when a number of us switched from another great data provider.

[finkie] 02/1/2018 12:50

A0002577 (great name btw) none of your last post contains any tangible reasoning as to why bondholders might not still be shafted here...family friendly and good parking dont make for automatic repayment of these 6.5% bonds....it feels like someone will have to pay here and there aren't many options for the company other than the bondholders....

[a0002577] 28/12/2017 16:36

Interesting chat with No 1 son over Christmas. He is chief exec of a substantial leisure business with assets somewhat larger than WASPs and with bigger crowds attending events and is very conscious of the need to compete for the leisure pound in people's pocket.

Not only is he (and his 3 children) a keen rugger fan and a member of WASPs but he seriously rates their work in making it easy for the public to attend events - a key driver in getting large attendances. So, for example, a five minute easy journey off the M6 leads to a car park with auto number plate recognition entry which in turn leads to a parking spot a 2 minute walk to his seats - and it is very family and child friendly.

[a0148009] 22/12/2017 17:50

Well done on your purchases useful to be close to what is happening in the club. Record all time volume today 458,400. Rugby Union and indeed many other sports are growing faster than ever with the excellent coverage by the media and cash income from it.Even the possibility of an Asian billionaire from Hong Kong or Japan could be interest in investing as time goes by and the bonds come up to maturity, there is no doubt deep pockets have turned around a number of football clubs.

[a0002577] 22/12/2017 16:18

Yes.I had read it - as you say, not good. However, things are moving in the right direction : ticket sales up, hospitality up and so on. And there is prospect of more to come with increased payments from, essentially, TV rights. the Rugby league and netball are also good.

I am surprised that they can't get a bank facility - wind turbines and solar farms
seem to be able to borrow money at about 3% - but they do have a good income stream.

It doesn't seem likely that they will be able to pay off the bond in '22 and will either have to extend it or take out a new one. but I cannot see them defaulting.

In the meanwhile, I bought a few today - and as they say, am already in the money on those.

[a0148009] 22/12/2017 12:37

Have you had a chance to look at the accounts to 31.06.17 in the Consent Solicitation,
they do not look too good. I think they went the retail bond route as it was cheaper than bank finance that is of course if it was ever available. They will have to refinance in 2022, cannot see them reducing much of the debt.They could borrow against the stadium which essentially is what they have done on the bonds, currently paying £2.275m per year interest.
I do not see many rugby union league matches but enjoy all the internationals and sevens.
Edit: apologies for repetition I was interrupted and thought I had lost the first version.

[a0148009] 22/12/2017 11:44

Have you had a chance to look at the accounts in the Consent Solicitation they do not look too good. We must assume that in 2022 they will have to refinance the loan.
My guess is that they went the retail bond route as it was cheaper and easier than bank finance that of course is if it was available. They are a good club although I do not follow club rugby very much I do enjoy all the internationals and sevens.

[a0002577] 22/12/2017 09:57

Good to see an 'old face'!

Thing is that Wasps themselves are doing rather well see their update on the same day as they announced the accounting error. No one son is a member and knows the board so I have no worries that they are gong bust - and anyway the loan is secured on the arena - which has just had a valuation uplift. So just waiting to see how low it goes before buying in more. Forward yield of 7.5% is not to be sneezed at these days.

Currently Bid : 84.8 Offer : 88.5

Do you use the Lemon Fool? More interesting there generally.

[a0148009] 22/12/2017 08:48

Hello A0 one of the few from the deep and distant past.
I mulled over this investment at the time of issue and only bought £10,000 instead of
of £50000 as it was a first for a Rugby club - so no real damage done I am pleased to say - will wait and see how this develops before buying more.

[a0002577] 22/12/2017 08:09

A minor accounting error and the price starts to fall off a cliff. Is this really a buying opportunity? Will wait and see if it falls further before buying more