Versarien Share Discussion Threads

[dolores123] 11/6/2019 12:28

A lot of buying today but share price still down. MMS having a laugh or what??

[alchemy] 11/6/2019 12:24

Wait for it Would production in China (and USA) be out of Reach? Reach's reach that is.

[spid81] 11/6/2019 11:38

Hi AquaeSulis01,

For VRS to apply for the higher tonnage of REACH, they first need to join the REACH graphene Consortium which is approved for 1-10t of Graphene,

There are only 4 companies in the world that are approved and Versarien is not one of them, as it currently stands VRS can only sell up to 1 tonne per year.

First Graphene ASX:FGR, are one of the 4 companies approved to sell 1-10 tonnes of Graphene in Europe/UK, and they are in the process of applying for the 10-100 tonne band.


Regarding the USA, you are required to gain EPA approval to sell graphene in the USA.

In Australia, First Graphene is the only company approved to sell graphene, where they have been granted approval to sell 100tpa, All other companies can only sell 100grams for research use in a 12 month period.
FGR will be announcing their sales in the coming weeks. expected to be 18-20 tonnes

[tini5] 11/6/2019 11:35

Neill said at the GEIC that VRS would sort REACH registration as and when required.

[aquaesulis01] 11/6/2019 11:24

Well if the USA aren't concerned with REACH compliance (China apparently are) maybe setting up a production facility there whilst approval to ramp up in Europe is awaited, is the answer eh?

[pshevlin] 11/6/2019 11:13

I'm sure it won't be ignored but if no-one else can produce the quantity or quality what are they going to do?

[aquaesulis01] 11/6/2019 11:07

I don't think you can ignore REACH; perhaps VRS has applied for a higher tonnage registration and are awaiting approval?

[pshevlin] 11/6/2019 10:49

The REACH registration dossiers for graphene for a tonnage band of up to 10 tonnes per year per registrant are being finalized and will be in place on the 31st May 2018.

Won't make the slightest difference if companies need it but hardly anyone can produce it. If thay stick by that they will lose out massively to other countries around the world.

[pshevlin] 11/6/2019 10:47

"If they knew what NR and the team do then they would be wetting themselves with excitement."

Thanks Super, I'm off to buy some adult pampers in eager anticipation.

[aquaesulis01] 11/6/2019 10:43

But is anyone licensed to make 100 tonnes of graphene is the exam question?

Does any company currently have a REACH agreement to produce more than 10 tonnes of Graphene is the exam Q?

What is REACH?

REACH refers to the Registration, Evaluation, Authorisation, and Restriction of Chemicals in Europe. It is a key regulation that covers the European market.

REACH in Europe entered into force in 2007 and applies to all chemicals manufactured or sold in Europe in the following quantities:

In 2010 the regulation applied to any material over 1000 tonnes.
In 2013 this limit was reduced to 100 tonnes
On the 31st of May 2018, this will be reduced further to cover all materials above 1 t.

Chemical products can be manufactured or sold in quantities less than one tonne without complying with the regulations, however, this can be expected to reduce further with time.

Why does it matter?

REACH is the strictest law to date regulating chemical substances and will affect industries throughout the world.

When REACH is fully in force, it will require all companies manufacturing or importing chemical substances into the European Union in quantities of one tonne or more per year to register these substances with a new European Chemicals Agency (ECHA) in Helsinki, Finland.

In essence, you have to have your graphene product covered by this regulation before you have a commercial product. European customers are unlikely to buy large quantities from you unless you can demonstrate compliance with REACH.

Does this affect my company even if I am not in Europe?

Yes. Similar regulations are already being developed in Korea, Turkey, and China; other countries are following and developing similar regulations to REACH.

Also, large multinational companies operate globally and tend to harmonize labeling and regulatory compliance to minimize duplication. By complying with REACH in Europe they will cascade the requirements throughout their organisations.

Graphene is made from graphite; can I just use the graphite REACH registrations to cover graphene?

No. Graphene is considered a separate substance from graphite. The International Standards Organisation (ISO) definition of (few layered) graphene is equal or less than ten layers. For the purpose of registering graphene the substance definitions are being designed to cover a thickness of up 300 nm, beyond that the material can be considered to be graphite.

So what does this all mean for me?

Consortia members are developing the registration dossiers that will cover:
Graphene
Graphene Oxide (GO)
Reduced Graphene Oxide (rGO)

The REACH registration dossiers for graphene for a tonnage band of up to 10 tonnes per year per registrant are being finalized and will be in place on the 31st May 2018.

If you are part of the consortium there will be no additional charge for getting access to the registrations dossiers to have your graphene products registered under REACH

[alchemy] 11/6/2019 10:40

They don't get to vote on it.

[davemac3] 11/6/2019 10:27

having thought about they may be able to do the 100s of machines model in China with Chinese investment and labour but would AECOM (trump) be happy with that?

[davemac3] 11/6/2019 10:19

having 100s of machines producing a few kg per day and each probably needing an operator sounds very inefficient to me. How much would they cost and how long would delivery of the machines take? (one machine took several months)
It has been said on here that delivery at scale may be holding up any AECOM deal and that sounds reasonable to me.

PS that's why I think a more modest initial order from AECOM is likely

[pshevlin] 11/6/2019 09:57

20 years of investing Super! Faint but not dead so won't be going anywhere soon but just fed up of much of the futile minute speculation on here which diverts and leads us nowhere and rather hoping for something more substantial. I am well aware that it could come any minute or may take months and months and have set myself a limit at which point I will review my holding but like several on here I really like the story and the objectives but I don't have forever to hang on. Just a question of age and nothing to do with VRS.Just one real order would dramatically change the whole situation and set the trajectory but not one of us can even speculate as to when that will come with any accuracy. I do hope we get some more detail at the AGM and with the next financial statement that will at least move us out of the doldrums.

[superg1] 11/6/2019 09:54

Dave

Yes

Think about it. If they can do 3 tonnes with a unit, 100 units do 300 tonnes and 1000 units 3000 tonnes.

What matters is if the relevant production process costs makes the end product viable on cost for end users.

As VRS CLEARLY pointed out. Collaborations and tests move forward having established that part. They are not testing Nanene first them finding out if it's viable on cost.

I did try to warn folk that Haydale had done it the other way around made cheap supply promises then found out the cheap graphene in the market isn't graphene. Haydale failed to make simple checks, but for them it was about hype not reality. A number of big companies got caught out by XG on the same point.

The question is can they scale up with bigger units. The last scale up was fine and I believe saw better quality.

I think what VRS would hope to achieve eventually is a continuous process.

I have seen production in action there are various parts to the process. Hence it's so easy for some to call some claimed methods a pile of BS.

The more a module can produce typically means costs will come down.

So the VRS current unit can do 3 tonnes per year. The limit on how much they can/will produce is simply the demand.

[davemac3] 11/6/2019 09:50

Really? I thought Neill said only last month the continuous process was still in development. Do they have in house expertise to develop this process?

[ellissj] 11/6/2019 09:50

Indeed superg, the chinese state have a serious graphene ambition. They are looking for a graphene work horse to partner with - not a show pony. Their £notes strategic investment proposal surely reflects vrs have the tech to produce quality and quantity at price. The ingredients of which neill tweeted about from the dennis koltsov iso slideshow presentation at the nga conference last autumn - "What if you can do both." Thus No mystery here - successful gc verification and the bigt investment proposal rns are simply tangible indicators of neill and co delivering upon this. Aimo. Dyor. Best ellis

[zagrosfold] 11/6/2019 09:46

They sure can Dave. It's going to be awesome! Don't miss out!

[davemac3] 11/6/2019 09:42

Can VRS make quality graphene at commercial levels? (100s of tonnes)

[dolores123] 11/6/2019 09:20

What's happening at aecom? And aren't we due a trading update?

[tim3416] 11/6/2019 09:19

Great news ellissj. Best wishes to all. Keep up the great work on here ;-)