United Carpets Share Discussion Threads

[rolo7] 27/11/2016 09:31

Very cheap here, I noticed there is another carpet retailer set up in recent years ex CPR director , they could be interest in ucg as they know the market and don't have stores where ucg does

[qs99] 25/11/2016 11:10

thanks LBO...interims last year were early December...nice to see small uptick as we head into December....

[mark1000] 13/10/2016 10:54

rolo7 I stand corrected - thanks I have edited post 1765 accordingly and have purchased some more shares today at less than 10p I think they are cheap time will tell.

[meijiman] 13/10/2016 10:09

I would point out that the weakness of sterling/strength of the Euro has really disadvantaged the Continental carpet companies. I would really like to know more about the UK carpet market -how much is supplied by UK companies and how much by imports. ??
So I'm not convinced that the current currency position is wholly negative. ANY VIEWS?

[rolo7] 13/10/2016 10:06

Ex divi was end September payment around 14/10

[mark1000] 13/10/2016 10:00

FX may be part of the reason for the fall - although CPR has been going up suspect that we have had one or more determined sellers and this has not been matched by buyers.

Not many shares with profits growth and a P/E around 6 with around 2M in the bank and no borrowings paying a div of around 4% covered 3.5 times the most recent payment 14/10 of 0.265p per share.

[ntv] 12/10/2016 18:27

bit of bashing today

[reallyrich] 12/10/2016 13:34

But only positive note maybe people will stay home and not holiday abroad because of weak pound, so hopefully spend money doing up there houses.

I think the drop is overdone.

[norbert colon] 12/10/2016 12:26

Rich - yes after I posted i realised that would be the case. Thanks

[reallyrich] 12/10/2016 11:55

They buy a lot of their products from abroad or the carpet material is sourced from abroad. Pounds weak drives up costs

They actually did mention it in one of the most recent announcements

[norbert colon] 12/10/2016 11:46

rolo7 - your FX concerns being what specifically?

[callumross] 12/10/2016 10:56

Not looking good, sadly. As usual the guys in the know head for the exit

[rolo7] 11/10/2016 18:01

I sold 20k shares on fx concerns

[ntv] 11/10/2016 17:34

some excitement here today
some body know something we don't ?

[loganair] 07/10/2016 09:01

Mark1000 - I am sorry to say I totally disagree with you about Share buy backs as do many they are the worse possible thing to do with spare cash and is definately NOT a special dividend in a share buy back rapper.

[mark1000] 07/10/2016 01:58

Loganair - There is an argument that the company go after commercial property but become more geared say borrow 5 million - the interest rate might be say 5% fixed for at least 5 years ideally the company say puts in another 1.5M + the properties already purchased so the portfolio is worth 7.5M with the 5M being secured against it. The 5M may return 8% in saving rent against 5% interest netting 150K gross profits for shareholders not to be lightly dismissed when it could improve profits of 1.5M by 10% - could also secure important trading sites for the Company as is claimed in the recent purchase. As management get older the idea of a property portfolio as a pension of final resort may be attractive. The downside is it increases gearing and puts cashflow under pressure as the 5M loan has to be repaid on top of the interest.

My retirement fund - the company could make an offer to all holders for 5% of their holdings which would be fairer and in view of the liquidity problems with the shares is a practical solution - you should see such returns as a special dividend in a share buy back wrapper.

[loganair] 06/10/2016 11:04

The management has always served us PI´s very well.

When UCG went bust, another part of UCG bought out the group and we´re all issued new shares in the new company on a 1 top 1 basis, something that many companies could do in a similar situation but sadly don´t.

[my retirement fund] 06/10/2016 10:21

I think given the company has shrunk somewhat since the days of its IPO several years ago, the argument for sharebuyback is still a valid one. However in practice this is an illiquid aim stock and being able to buy back shares in a fair manner at a reasonable level to market price and fair value would be impossible.

Maximising returns to shareholders in the short to medium term should still remain a priority imo and maxing out dividends is still the best way to do this. I would rather have higher dividends and the odd special dividend than see the companies capital sunk into buying commercial properties - if I wanted to invest in properties I would be buying a REIT.

[loganair] 06/10/2016 08:37

Mark1000 - In the long run Buying the free hold of their properties make huge commercial sense as if ever get into trouble can borrow against them as an asset.

Look what happened at Woolies, only owned around 20 freeholds and over 800 properties were rented and therefore were unable to borrow.

[mark1000] 05/10/2016 11:19

NTV - Are you sure 8% returns on commercial are better than buying our shares at current prices? certainly its a better return than what the bank pays but its not risk free commercial property prices go up and down.

Say the Company has 1.5 million to invest

In property it makes say @ 8% 120,000 on the shares in issue say 10 million to make the maths easier improves EPS by 0.12p after CT its less say 0.10p

A share buy back of 10% of the shares at say 15p still spending 1.5M means on current profits of 1.5M p/e going from 1.5p per share to 1.67p an increase of 0.17p better than 0.10p above.

Of course by buying the shares back the Company capitalisation would be reduced but the shareholders would be getting a tax efficient share distribution on say a current share price 12p an equivalent of 12.5% on their investment. To me its a no brainer when you consider the likely impact on share price I suggest to you buying commercial property has currently had a negative impact on the share price if they had instead declared another special dividend of 1p we shareholders would be seeing the share price higher.

[ntv] 04/10/2016 09:26

surely it is better to use the cash to buy the properties that it rents. thus saving rentals payable longer term. especially if they can purchase properties at around 8% yield. the trouble is the company spent a sizeable amount of cash doing that and didn't tell shareholders what they had done by RNS. probably against exchange rules but nobody enforces them anyway.
share buy backs only really benefit big shareholders and not small ones imho
big dividend payers share prices grow their share price as punters currently want a decent dividend to offset the interest they get from a bank/ building society

[mark1000] 04/10/2016 03:14

A final thought the directors want to take cash out of the Company in the most tax advantageous way surely better to do this by buy back paying CGT at a max of 28% rather than 40% on a dividend. So offer all shareholders 15p per share for 5% of their shares - say the directors hold 50 million - they sell the max 5% = 2.5 million @ 15p = 375,000 with a tax saving of 12% say 40,000 at the same time the reduction in shares will increase the EPS by approx 5% as money in the bank earns jack. A more tax efficient vehicle than dividends and with the upside of improving the EPS. An offer to all shareholders would allow the majority directors to participate without negative press comments ie directors selling shares.

[mark1000] 04/10/2016 02:54

Loganair - I understand your feelings however a buy back in this case is not going to result in increased debt if it is only at the 5% level - they have plenty of cash on the balance sheet being added to by operations cash even after dividends. Put to one side your dividend preference do you prefer to see them build up cash balances or do a buy back. Can I suggest with a P/E around 7 this represents a 14% ROCE this is not to be sniffed at. I think why most share buy backs do not work is because they chase the share price up - the amounts purchased are tiny and consequently the impact is often negligible one way or the other.

[lbo] 03/10/2016 16:04

If a share buy back causes only a temporary rise in share price and then allows shareholders to buy back shares in the market after at cheaper then that only makes another argument in favour of it as being more tax efficient then dividends!