Tyman Share Discussion Threads

[jeffian] 11/7/2013 09:28

Well, I'm happy!

8-)

[jeffian] 04/6/2013 18:10

The bulletin boards thrive on penny-stocks which are going to turn modest investments into £multi-million fortunes overnight (in their dreams!). Look at the most popular threads and I pretty well guarantee it'll be some spivvy cash shell, a bio-technology stock which has discovered 'the next big thing' or a junior miner which is on the cusp of discovering unheard of reserves of gold/oil/take your pick. Companies like this one which go about their business steadily increasing revenues, profits and dividends just don't attract the same level of excitement. And that suits me fine! Although I agreed with others here that this was beginning to look fully-valued, good news keeps coming through from the housebuilding market in the US and here, and there have been reasonably good results from suppliers such as TPK and WOS, so we may just be in the sweet spot if recovery continues. Get the Euro sorted out, and we're home and dry!

[bummel45] 04/6/2013 17:58

Now that the dust has settled this does seem to have been a very successful offer. Plenty of time for holders to bale out if they weren't happy, but the price has mostly risen. I'm just surprised that there isn't more interest in this company either here, or those on other trader sites. Does anyone have other views on this?

[janeann] 27/5/2013 19:49

i too am lurking- been holding for a while and took up my allowance - no extra. Mulling over whther to stay or move on from this now.

j

[janeann] 27/5/2013 19:15

i too lurking- been holding for a while and took up my allowance - no extra. Mulling over whther to stay or move on from this now.

j

[jeffian] 21/5/2013 15:45

Well I'm glad someone else is here!

[strangeman] 21/5/2013 15:30

I've been in since 1992 (Oceonics) to some degree or other. Couldn't afford the placing, but glad I realised in time that selling a few at over 2 quid to buy some others at 185 seemed like a reasonable bet at the time. I reckon the dividends paid for my shares a long time ago, so I'm not leaving in a hurry.

[jeffian] 21/5/2013 14:47

That went OK then. All taken up bar 3m-odd shares which were subsequently placed, and holding onto a 17% gain on the Placing price. I'm happy. Nobody else left in this?

[jeffian] 20/5/2013 16:02

Well we'll find out tomorrow but share price strength at the close suggests it's gone well.

[jeffian] 16/5/2013 09:24

Indeed.

I took up mine (but not the Excess) and assume that current share price strength means it was well-supported.

[strangeman] 16/5/2013 09:04

Which, no doubt, removes any fear or uncertainty about what his 'next move' might have been.
Presumably there was also a good uptake of the open offer ?

[jeffian] 16/5/2013 08:30

Well it really is a case of "Goodbye, Greg". He's out entirely now. It's been a nicely-managed exit of a pretty substantial shareholder.

[nw99] 16/5/2013 06:24

Stake building pushing it up

[jeffian] 09/5/2013 17:41

I suspect it's more fundamental than that. He built quite a substantial stake when he became Executive Chairman and had ambitions to rehabilitate himself in the City by building 'Tomkins Mark II'. After he was removed from the Board and failed in a bid to reinstate himself, that wasn't going to happen. He then found himself with a substantial stake in a company in which he had no executive power, whose management he had largely fallen out with and which - in turning itself from a 'conglomerate' in the Hanson/Tomkins mode to a single-focus building supplies company - was going in a direction he did not like. He was clearly always going to sell in those circumstances and the recent share price strength and current corporate action provided the opportunity to do so. Tax may be an issue, but I suspect it is secondary to these more fundamental issues.

Edit: Now I think about it, the thread header says it all - rather more succinctly!

[a0148009] 09/5/2013 17:17

Newbold, yes that makes sense to some extent but he still has to find another IHT tax shelter possibly Discretionary Trusts or Gift Trusts for the proceeds.

AO

[newbold120] 09/5/2013 16:42

I can imagine Greg is selling in advance of the move to main list as will remove the IHT exemption on the shares

[a1samu] 08/5/2013 06:50

Just shows how one can use charts to prove anything. I have been into TYMN from the beginning and went through a roller coaster time with Hutchings and I am just getting my money back! I have been there when the share price was just 5p.

I wish I would have had the sense to have been with RCP the same. I would be much better off today, and RCP never asked me for an extra penny.

But there is no question in my mind that these bunch of directors will not achieve anything earth shattering and will produce a pedestrian, jobbing return for their shareholders, while having an easy and good time for themselves and their city buddies, awarding themselves massive wages, bonuses and options, on the back of this "splendid" new acquisition and on the back of their shareholders.

Neither do I listed to unsepcified, unknown contributors as to what to do with my wealth, but rather, I am writing these notes, so that if there is someone out there wanting to know about TYMN, they might have an input from the point of view of a small shareholder.

By the way instead of beef I prefer goulash!

[jeffian] 07/5/2013 10:05

Indeed. So invest in RCP, then, a1samu. You could spam every thread on ADVFN with that statistic as not many will do better, but this is about Tyman. It also rather depends on how selective you want to be with your inputs. For the sake of example, suppose you'd chosen to make your investment at the beginning of 2009?



(Actually, the comparison looks pretty good in any year from 2000 onwards).

[strangeman] 07/5/2013 09:52

So that just means that Tyman isn't the company for you a1samu.

Personally I would be more worried if there wasn't some healthy debate going on as to whether this was a 'good thing' or not, as a consensus usually indicates that a bubble is about to burst (or begin to form).

[a1samu] 07/5/2013 09:37

Oh Gosh this Jeffian is so boring!

If one would have invested £815 on the 2 August 1988 in RIT Capital Partners plc an open ended investment trust, today this same holding would be worth £12,700, without the trust ever turning to its shareholders for additional money, and this process continues even today and the only direction that this trust seems to be heading is north.

Tyman is pedestrian compared to such performance and will never ever achieve anything approaching a decent return.

[bummel45] 07/5/2013 09:37

Reading the two of you, 'a1samu' and 'jeffian', going 'head to head', I am with jeffian on the figures, outlook and strategy. Investors have a choice, and are free to exercise it as they wish. This seems now to be a very well run company, and intend on building a solid platform for progress.

I am also wondering whether 'a1samu' is a pseudonym for Hutchings! There seems to be some bitterness in the posts?

[jeffian] 07/5/2013 09:16

"...the shareholders can wait almost 10 years, just to recoup the additional capital demanded of them in the form of dividends".

What's your beef? Nothing is "demanded" of you - it's an Open Offer - and if you choose not to participate you will simply end up with a proportionally smaller slice of a larger company (i.e. it shouldn't make much difference to you). If your investment criteria is that any new capital has to pay for itself in dividends within 10 years, I imagine you are struggling to invest as I cannot think of anything that fits that bill at the moment.

In the meantime, I note that Greg Hutchings continues to reduce his stake and I imagine that will continue until he is out altogether. Standard Life, who are supporting the Open Offer, are increasing their holding. Share price holding up well, so the market still seems to like it.

[a1samu] 07/5/2013 07:33

The mistake people make on this thread is to think that anything has to be understood. What is, what is, what is. It can be left at that.
Certainly, no energy is spent in putting words into people's mouths, for there have been no EBITDA forecasts included in the prospectus and no one knows what the 2013 numbers will be. The historical 2012 EBITDA numbers are summarized in the prospectus and since the Truth profits have been volatile, according to the prospectus, page 251, over the last three years, they could be anything for 2013.
This acquisition is unlikely to be setting this company on fire and sending the share price into the stratosphere, for the very reason, that the directors seem to have created for themselves a very cushy situation, in which over the coming years, they will be the main beneficiaries, with increased wages, bonuses and options, while the shareholders can wait almost 10 years, just to recoup the additional capital demanded of them in the form of dividends, for this company is unlikely to be ever in a position to hive off cash back to the shareholders or buy back shares or any other ways to enhance returns to them.

[jeffian] 06/5/2013 14:23

a1samu,

If you had "carefully researched your numbers", why did you use the Net Profit figure of £3.665m in stating that "This profit level will hardly pay for the interest associated with the costs of this increase in loans" without taking account of the fact that that figure was struck after deduction of £6.2m interest on loans to Truth which will be repaid prior to Tyman taking over?

I don't really understand your beef. You don't like being asked to increase your investment by 23.4%, having just pointed out that Truth will increase Group EBITDA by about 52%. You say that the alternative is "if you do not like it, you can always sell your shares" but, of course, the third alternative is to hold onto your existing shares but not take up your entitlement to additional shares under the Open Offer. As with every takeover involving an invitation to shareholders to subscribe, the options are to accept some dilution (a smaller slice of a larger cake) or invest more to maintain the same percentage of the enlarged Group. 5 of the largest shareholders have declared that they intend to take up slightly less than their entitlement; 1 is taking up rather more. Greg Hutchings says he is not taking up his entitlement but this is no big surprise given his 'history' here and that fact that he was a substantial seller before this deal was announced. You will remember, incidentally, that there were 2 substantial Rights/Open Offers to shareholders in the Hutchings era in connection with acquisitions, investors in which have only recently got their heads above water again. If you don't like it, don't take it up. Simples.

We'll have to see how well take-up goes but, as the share price has nudged up to new highs since the announcement, it doesn't feel as if the market is anticipating any significant overhang.