Tethys Share Discussion Threads

[casual47] 26/3/2017 21:02

Hguess, the reserves don't mean much if they don't have the cash to exploit them.

The Kumars only chipped​ in 700,000 each. That is hardly a vote of confidence.

You know nothing about the commercial terms of what Prax-AK may offer TPL for the oil. TPL has no infrastructure in place itself to get the oil from the well to the terminal and onwards and that makes up a huge percentage of the cost. I would be amazed if Prax-AK is paying much above what it costs TPL seeing as they need to pay all the logistics.

The listing cancellation is worrying for two reasons: bad for PIs who only trade in UK or who can't hold foreign shares and bad as it does not give confidence that a good deal is on the table already.

We will soon know more when the 2016 results are released. The status of the Caymans loan will, imo, be the crux.

Until the results are out i would suggest topups are a little premature.....

[hguess16] 26/3/2017 19:02

Casual,
There is little point trying to convince a worrier like you !.
I have told you before that the reserves in the KAZ Tethys fields amount to 13.8m.
Multiply that by $15 and you get over $100m. This amount is far in excess of the total
short term loans plus the cost of extraction and other OH.
My optimism is based on facts incl your find about Prax AK who are now buying oil from
Tethys !.
1399Peter,
Have you ever tried obtaining corporate funds for a company based in Eastern Europe or an emerging market who have a secondary listing in London ?.
It is bloody difficult !.
If the primary listing is in London, that could be of some help !.
The Kumars, one of them Sanjeev, bssed in the UK with his private company, Total and the subsidiary Prax, decided to come to the aid of Tethys. Medgat, with his company based in KAZ and his local contacts came to the aid of Tethys.
So why bother with the " closed shop of financiers in London ".
That is the reality.
I have dealt with financial institutions in the past and they are wary of lending to companies who operate in emerging markets, especially now in oil due to the recent supply/demand issues.
As soon as you mention emerging markets, they tend to close the shutters !.
Look, in the end the whole issue of investing is determined by your perception of
risk and potential return.
So your " NOT GOOD" because London financiers are not involved, is misplaced !.

[1399peter] 26/3/2017 16:11

hguess

The delist might not be a ball-breaker as you say. But look at the message it sends. "Tethys is unable to obtain corporate funds in London" "NOT GOOD"

As Casual points out, we have to be realistic about this. Because none of know if the fundamentals of company haven't changed as we are not being kept up-to-date on developments.

PI's are rightly concerned about what the next bombshell could be!!


Edit: Dorset64
25 Mar '17 - 19:13 - 14073 Appreciate the post,

[casual47] 26/3/2017 15:18

How about you be realistic?

Your optimism is based on hope. Nothing more. Not past performance, not present performance, not fundamentals indicated by the balance sheet. Just hope.

[hguess16] 26/3/2017 14:59

Casual,
There you go again !.What a pessimist !.
My view is that the dilution to invite the Kumars to come in, was to exclude the crooks at Olisol and, this has been proved by the further actions by Olisol !.

There is no need for further dilution apart from the warrants conversion.
Why did you not buy TPL on Fri ?.
The price at below 1p was below the Kumars price of entry at 1.23p ?.
Is it that you feel that Tethys is going into bankruptcy, hence your talk of priority of lenders in a bankruptcy ?.
Then you go on about the delisting as if is a ball-breaker.
Let me remind you that the TSX has always been the main market and the LSE was a
secondary market.
If Tethys is unable to obtain corporate funds in London, why bother to be listed on the LSE.
If you look at the benefits of listing, one of the main benefits is access to capital markets. If this is not available in London, then surely why spend money
on listing even if it costs £100k !.
Tethys is not going private as is implied on the BB. It is only focusing on listing
on the TSX. If they do, they will have to make an offer to PI's !.
Stop worrying !. Be more realistic !.
Let's wait for the real news about the results of the negotiations !.

[casual47] 26/3/2017 14:40

Simple majority of those votes present at AGM is all that is needed for placing to be approved. Some parties may need to abstain if the placing is to reward themselves. But the Kumars can basically reward Pope and Pope can reward Kumars, as they did at last EGM. No private investor will be able to stop that.

[redstone64] 26/3/2017 14:27

casual47, you raise some points which are quite key to us PIs to understand our position as individual shareholders. Indeed the UK de-listing comes as a blow (even if it has a reasonable rationale) which no doubt brings into question what is next in a series of events and raising suspicion of if there could be further dilution or dare we say the thought that TPL could be taken private.Are these real prospects and what can we do to stop any of this happening if we decide to stick with TPL and to protect our own accumulation of what now can be a reasonable number of shares made by averaging down or buying to avoid dilution?As I understand to take any company private would require 75% of the shareholders to vote for it, does the same apply for further dilution as in the recent EGM?

[casual47] 26/3/2017 12:08

Hguess, you can be sure that no PI is in the same boat as Pope/ALR. Unsecured lenders still come ahead of shareholders in a bankruptcy scenario. Also, Pope/ALR/Kumars are in a position to reward themselves cheap shares at the drop of a hat as they have already done so and are able to protect themselves against future dilutions by agreeing a cosy deal and leaving the PIs out to fend for themselves, again as they have already done so. In a scenario where TPL completely delists it is detrimental to PIs but not to Pope et al.

With regards to the Kumars, they are hardly in the boat. 700k is peanuts for them and they have probably already made that money back with the oil sales from TPL.

[hguess16] 26/3/2017 09:09

Dorset,
Thanks.
My "gut" feeling is that the share price is unlikely to fall from its current buy 1.23p level as the blip on Fri was ( in my view ) beyond reason.
Mind you, I may be wrong in my judgement as there may be a few more PI's who might be uncertain and decide to throw in the towel on Mon or Tues !.
But I decided on Fri to take the risk to top up by selling out of a few of my FTSE 100 shares as I felt that it was incredible to see the TPL share price at pre 1p levels. It was unbelievable as the Kumars paid more to get in !!.
However, I think I will stop at that, as I seem to be acting like a mini Hedge fund
operator (similar to Soros and Druckenmiller) who bets the whole ranch and more on TPL.
If I have made the wrong call on TPL, then, at least, I will be in the same boat as PAM and the Kumars, but significantly less well off !.
For now, I will keep the balance of my small other portfolio intact in order to survive and wait for the TPL BOD to respond with the credible news of their, hopefully, successful negotiations on funding the business and new marketing arrangements.
best wishes

[casual47] 25/3/2017 20:13

D64 - as the listing ends by 1st May there shouldn't be a rush to top up? I doubt the share price will recover that much (unless there is significant news) and more people may yet be forced to sell out over the course of the month with maybe a rush to the exit the last day or so.

Might be worth to at least wait for the annual results and any other update they may contain (e.g. news on Cayman lender loan - if that is sorted it is great news, if it is still being negotiated maybe not so much).

Though should it drop to 0.5 (doubt it) then i might be tempted too, assuming the feedback from Barclays etc is positive (though i am considering to moving to TD Waterhouse but it's not that simple as there are other dependencies such as my bank account etc)

Otherwise i think I'll not be greedy for a change. After the sale this week my average has gone up to 2.7p in my ISA and 3.6p in my SIPP respectively, though with the added security of having banked some into cash.

[dorset64] 25/3/2017 19:29

I hold all my shares in a TD Waterhouse account. Some years ago I did fill in some paperwork, online to enable me to buy/sell shares both in New York & Canada plus a few other countries I believe.

All my US & Canadian shares are held in my ISA so see absolutely no problem holding Tethys in such accounts, and of which are easily traceable the same as you currently do in London today.

[dorset64] 25/3/2017 19:13

Just to clear up a few things guys.....

1. Although only 1 Kumar has put himself on the BoD's of TPL, that is not to say the other will not. In his business world he does not currently, I believe, see that as something he should or need to do straight away as he has made his investment and is 100% on TPL's side, with or without a seat on the board.

2. The reason that TPL did not make a RNS on the legal case was, I believe on the advice of their legal council. It was hoped that by not advertising the fact that TPL were taking them to court, that everything could be agreed prior to proceedings. Obviously this didn't happen as hoped as so the case is now official & ongoing.

3. I don't believe there will be any rebuff of the recent Olisol article as the two sides are in legal battle, and it is unprofessional of either side to try and score points in public. The BoD's have far more decency than Olisol (my words).

4. I believe we are & have been selling oil to Prax as the agreement with EGG is NOT exclusive, irrespective of what Olisol say/believe. There are also other advantages to selling to Prax like actually being paid for the oil and possibly a slightly higher price.

5. Dropping the UK listing, this is mainly down to cost, and as the London listing was mainly there for London investment banking and currently, and for the foreseeable that will not be an option.

All of the above are my words and not those of the BoD's.

Hguess, now that I have had time to reflect plus ask a few questions, I feel it was rather rash of me to sale the amount I did last week and will, if I can buy a few back over the next week. I just get the feeling that there may be more news soon, good or bad I know not, but feel we are about to enter a better period for TPL than the past few years. I know no more than anyone else here but will, if I'm about/able to buy some back next week. GL all.

[hguess16] 25/3/2017 18:14

I should also mention that as the shares are held in trust by the TD Broker on our behalf, I would expect the Broker to handle this change of register,

[hguess16] 25/3/2017 18:10

I am with TD Direct and see no issues, but will check to make sure on Monday.
The press release states " Those shareholders affected will be contacted about this with further details in due course.
I only envisage the transfer of the share details to the Register at TSX Trust Co in Canada. Personally it will result in a conversion/translation for own personal valuation purposes.
Apart from an exchange risk and taxation ( double taxation relief /withholding tax matters) I do not see any issues related to ownership.
It may also require the completion of a new form with the broker to enable trading on the TSX.

[benandemmiboo] 25/3/2017 16:59

US market is for now very difficult to acquire or sell shares at prices different than the BID or ASK. When I was in accumulation mode, I often bought at higher than Canadian prices. Yet another frustrating aspect with this stock. Hopefully that would change at some point, but the entity controlling the TETHF ticker has been doing it for a long time.

[1399peter] 25/3/2017 16:24

It's looking like I might have to move em else where

[casual47] 25/3/2017 16:22

The spread of TPL on the US market yesterday was 260%, so good luck with that



Real-Time Best Bid & Ask
0.009 / 0.024

[casual47] 25/3/2017 16:02

TPL is only listed on Canada's TSX and UK's LSE.

There are secondary markets where the stock is also traded, eg. Nex (ISDX) in UK and OTC marketplace in US.

[1399peter] 25/3/2017 15:48

Didn't they used to have a US listing,

hxxps://dividata.com/stock/TETHF

It shows Nasdaq as the exchange but not listed as far as TPL website is concerned

[casual47] 25/3/2017 15:26

BTW, I presume Nex (the old ISDX) will also stop with TPL when they delist from LSE as they are dependent on it. So the only exchange left will be TSX. There's also of course over the counter trading in US but who wants to do that....

[casual47] 25/3/2017 14:29

Peter, that's right, HMRC allows it but not all providers support it.

I'm with Barclays and i have seen conflicting info: Google says no but i believe it was wrighty on here who said they confirmed it is OK. We shall see.

Half of my remaining holding is in a SIPP, so that's another complication.

Also, you can only buy and sell shares in pounds in an ISA, so when you do finally sell your canadian dollar denominated TPL shares hopefully the exchange rate is as advantageous as it is now as it will immediately be settled into GBP.

[wrighty46] 25/3/2017 14:26

You are probably right casual, I topped up without finding out my state of play. I filled in paperwork years ago to trade USA. So have that just not sure on isa, I'm hoping straight transfer into my dealing account.