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STGR Stratmin Global

1.125
0.00 (0.00%)
Last Updated: 01:00:00
Delayed by 15 minutes
Share Name Share Symbol Market Type Share ISIN Share Description
Stratmin Global LSE:STGR London Ordinary Share GB00B9276C59 ORD 0.01P
  Price Change % Change Share Price Bid Price Offer Price High Price Low Price Open Price Shares Traded Last Trade
  0.00 0.00% 1.125 - 0.00 01:00:00
Industry Sector Turnover Profit EPS - Basic PE Ratio Market Cap
0 0 N/A 0

Stratmin Global Share Discussion Threads

Showing 16001 to 16023 of 17450 messages
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DateSubjectAuthorDiscuss
16/2/2016
14:10
Glad to see Marvin gone. Never managed to work out what use he was to the company from day 1. An expensive waste of space for the shareholders, but, no doubt, he has lined the pockets of his masters and self well.
knowsleyman1
16/2/2016
12:03
Every company has risk but there's an awful amount of value/upside chucked in at this Market cap.Market capGraphite producerStratmin Global.........£3.4mOur Australian back door listing Bass Metals £2.5m for 25% of Lohorano!6x bagger since graphite deal Non-producing graphite companies, years away from production, not generating any cashAustralia Mozambi Coal.......A$22m - £11m Kibaran Resources....A$29m - £14mTriton Minerals..........A$29m - £14mTalga Resources.......A$40m - £20mMagnis Resources...A$130m - £64mSyrah Minerals......A$902m!! - £445m..Madagascar graphite peerProduction start 2017Energizer Resources......£17m6-10x bagger just to catch up to Australian peers
illuminati1
16/2/2016
07:29
You were as deluded as any here duxy
the stigologist
15/2/2016
23:43
Looks illuminati and crew got it wrong, its down 15% today and there is no floor left. 1p coming here. Compelling buy before the eventual bust? Maybe, but a few bob to make along the way if that is the case.Where that knowesleyman? Still around laughing as those that presented this case some years ago and stated that the director have bitten more than they can chew?Last one on the way out switch off the lights.
duxy786_2
15/2/2016
20:46
Beijing triggers commodities bounceback on.ft.com/1RH5QCk
comet5d
15/2/2016
19:26
Mail & Guardian15 Feb 2016http://mg.co.za/article/2016-02-15-so-who-is-not-dying-in-african-mining-the-answer-may-surprise-youThe tough ones As such it would be easy to say minerals have taken a hammering. But not all – some, three of them to be exact, are proving bulletproof, and may just serve to refocus Africa's growth priorities.One might hazard a guess would be lithium – used to make batteries for which the rechargeable variety is increasingly in demand (think Tesla) – prices have gone up.But Wilfried Pabst, who runs a lithium operation in Zimbabwe, says the continent's lithium is of a lower grade than that used to make batteries: that technology exists in, you guessed it, China.But you wouldn't be too wrong: graphite is another component of batteries, in addition to other uses such as in steel-making, electrodes and in lubricants.Where there's recovery Mining continues in countries such as Tanzania, Zimbabwe, Mozambique and Madagascar, and prices have seen a recovery in the last six months. Graphite is only about 5% of what is used in batteries, with the bulk in steel-making which is suffering from the Chinese hangover, but costs of production are expected to increase in the Asian country, as demand for use in lithium batteries also goes up. In other words, the only way is up.
illuminati1
15/2/2016
15:54
What a boring day. Low volume,...IMO everybody just watching and waiting with some small top-ups. Just sitting back and waiting.Good luck all and I hope you have the patience and financial position to see this one come home! What was that Pantene ad phrase? "It won't happen overnight but it will happen"...All IMO people . .
comet5d
15/2/2016
11:26
Gigafactory: 30% of output for Tesla Energy utility batteries
Benchmark Minerals

comet5d
11/2/2016
21:29
LG Chem opens new Battery Factory in China

11 Feb 2016

LG Chem has completed construction of its newest battery factory in China.

According to Korea Times, LG Chem has an ambitious goal of generating “1.5 trillion won ($1.3 billion) from sales over the next five years in China.”

The opening of the factory in Nanjing, China is necessary to meet the nation’s booming demand for plug-in electric cars.

Quoting Korea Times:

“LG Chem has secured 16 carmakers for the company’s batteries for use in all types of electric vehicles (EVs), with all ‘top-tier̵7; Chinese carmakers being included in LG’s supply chain management,” C.S. Song, head of LG Chem’s public relations office, told The Korea Times.”

“The three-story LG factory could theoretically produce 50,000 batteries for advanced pure EVs a year, meaning the plant could also be used to supply up to 180,000 battery packs for plug-in hybrid EVs (PHEVs).”
Though already capable of churning out a significant amount of lithium-ion cells, LG Chem says that in the future, plants upgrades could “boost annual production capacity to 200,000 batteries by 2020 (700,000 units for PHEVs),” according to Korea Times.

LG Chem now has 3 battery plants, including one in South Korea and another in the U.S. in the state of Michigan. A fourth plant is planned for Europe.

Source: Korea Times

comet5d
11/2/2016
18:10
IM Graphite News 5-11 FebAlabama and Northern dispute processing IP; University of Sydney teams up with Hazer for graphite from air technology.TSX-V-listed Alabama Graphite Corp. has hit back at a press release from fellow graphite junior, Northern Graphite Corp., which it said made "unsubstantiated allegations" that Alabama Graphite had infringed Northern's intellectual property (IP) rights.The IP relates to a low temperature graphite purification process, which Alabama Graphite is using to beneficiate ore from its Coosa graphite project in the state of Alabama, US. Alabama Graphite said that the technology its process is based on has been known for some time and was the subject of patents that "expired decades ago".Northern Graphite had also alleged that the margins based on production costs of $3,000/tonne which Alabama reported in its preliminary economic assessment (PEA) of Coosa were "unrealistic". Alabama Graphite responded by pointing out that the figures used for its PEA were "reviewed and vetted by several qualified persons within the meaning of NI 43-101.Alabama Graphite said that Northern has not initiated any kind of law suit against it, adding that Alabama was "reviewing all measures at its disposal" to address the claims made by Northern.Meanwhile, Northern Graphite has completed a fatal flaw analysis and scoping study respecting its proprietary purification process, which it is using to process graphite ore mined from its Bissett Creek project in Ontario, Canada.The studies concluded that Northern's process does not present any technical challenges, can be carried out using relatively standard processing equipment and will not generate any harmful waste products.A facility to purify 5,000 tpa flake graphite concentrate or spherical graphite from Bissett Creek would have a capital cost of approximately $10.5m, with operating costs of approximately $0.50/kg.Also in Ontario, Great Lakes Graphite Inc. has begun commissioning its Matheson Micronisation Facility in Matheson, following the successful conclusion of an electrical safety inspection.All facility permits are now in place, in addition to the human resources necessary to begin operations at the plant. Once commissioned, Great Lakes will begin producing value added micronised natural flake graphite products as well as micronised synthetic graphite products for applications in grease, lubricating fluids, drilling fluids, brake pads and battery components.Lomiko Metals Inc. and Canada Strategic Metals Inc. have released a resource report for the La Loutre flake graphite property in Quebec.The report indicated 8.4m tonnes graphite with an average grade of 3.2% C and 16.7m tonnes at 3.75% C inferred, with a cut-off of 1.5% C.Lomiko is also currently completing an option to acquire 80% of La Loutre and the two companies are working to deliver a PEA for the project.Also in Quebec, TSX-V-listed Nouveau Monde Mining Enterprises Inc. has completed its latest drilling campaign on the Tony claim at its Matawinie graphite project.The latest round of drilling consisted of 27 holes over 4,546 metres and brings the total number of holes drilled at the property to 70 over 10,479 metres. The campaign identified four graphitic horizons with widths ranging from 7 metres to 50 metres and grades of between 2.37% C and 5.39% C.Lithium Corp . has received all the analytical results from its autumn 2015 trenching programme at the Weather Station showing at its Sugar Flake graphite prospect in British Columbia, Canada.Sampling encountered 69 metres that averaged around 2% graphitic carbon that remains open to the north and south. The interval contained a 30-metre section that averaged 2.73% C and within that there was a 12 metre section that averaged 2.99% C.Lithium Corp. is currently studying the results and determining what steps to take to move this property along.ASX-listed Peninsula Mines Ltd's Korean subsidiary, SMCL, has filed tenement applications over a number of flake graphite prospects previously identified by the Korea Mineral Promotion Corp., now known as Korea Resources Corp. (KORES).An ongoing review of historical Korean graphite projects identified that the tenement blocks centred over the Wolmyeong graphite mine, which was the largest of its kind in South Korea before it closed in 1987, were open and available for application.SMCL has filed five tenement applications over the site.In Australia, Renascor Resources Ltd has released initial assay results from its latest reverse circulation drilling programme at its Arno graphite project in South Australia's Eyre Peninsula.The company said it intersected broad intervals of near surface graphite, with sections ranging from 23 metres to 31 metres in length, with grades ranging from 9% C to 14.8% C. Renascor has so far received assays on 10 holes from the 24-hole drilling programme, with the rest due to be reported in the next few weeks, followed by further exploration.Also in Australia, the University of Sydney has joined forces with technology firm Hazer Group to scale up the company's proprietary Hazer Process, which produces hydrogen and graphite from natural gas.Sydney's Laboratory of Sustainable Technologies (LST) will be the main collaboration partner and aims to assist Hazer to scale up production by 100 times, to a rate of kgs/day.The Hazer Process was developed by researchers at the University of Western Australia (UWA), and the Hazer Group was assigned the intellectual property rights for commercial development.The collaboration is expected to be formalised within the next six weeks.In financial news, UK AIM-listed StratMin Global Resources Plc has agreed with Consolidated Resources Pte Ltd that Consolidated will provide an unsecured loan facility to Graphmada Mauritius, the Company's 93.5%-owned subsidiary, of up to Australian dollar (A$) 200,000 ($141,805*) to provide short term working capital. The funds advanced under the facility are free of interest and are repayable at the completion of StratMin's transaction with Bass Metals Ltd or by 30 June 2016, whichever comes first.Beowulf Mining Plc, also AIM-listed, has issued 729,329 shares to settle outstanding amounts owed in relation to its acquisition of Oy Fennoscandian Resources AB last month.Beowulf issued 450,000 new shares as a deferred payment for the acquisition, which brought the iron ore miner a handful of early stage graphite exploration properties in Finland. The remainder of the shares were issued to Beaufort Securities Ltd in payment of fees for services provided to Beowulf.
comet5d
11/2/2016
13:36
Graphite out with the Old, in with the New
LONDON, January 11, 2016 /PRNewswire/ --

For at least two decades, the graphite industry has been led by growth in Chinese steel because of its use as a key raw material in electrodes and refractories. But 2015 was a year of major change as China crested the peak of its steel production and Chinese economic development began to contract. Graphite producers are turning to the emerging lithium-ion battery market with a new, intense focus. With Chinese electric vehicle (EV) uptake increasing rapidly and the USA constructing large capacity for lithium-ion batteries, will the future of graphite be secure? How will increasing competition between natural and synthetic graphite in lithium-ion batteries change the dynamics of the graphite industry to 2020?

Traditional markets slowing
Production of crude steel in China grew by 11.7%py between 2004 and 2014 but is set to fall for the first time in 2015, by 11Mt, and continue falling by -0.4%py to 2020. The major markets for graphite are based directly on steel production, including electrodes, refractories, recarburising and foundries.

Synthetic graphite is primarily manufactured as electrodes for electric arc furnaces (EAFs). Low iron ore prices in recent years have led to EAF production becoming less economical than other production methods. EAF steel production fell by -6% in 2014 and fell again in 2015. Global demand for refractories, the largest market for natural graphite, fell every year between 2011 and 2015 and will continue to fall to 2020, although growth in graphite-containing refractories will see slightly higher growth.

Lithium-ion batteries to save the day?
In China, higher levels of EV subsidies have encouraged sales of these vehicles in recent years. By the end of 2015, cumulative Chinese sales of EVs and PEVs (plug-in electric vehicles) totalled >0.25M; over half of these sales occurred during 2015. As the new five-year plan of the Chinese government is released, we expect a further push away from traditional vehicles. Meanwhile, Tesla has created a large buzz as it builds its lithium-ion 'gigafactory' in Nevada, USA. The factory will provide batteries for use in up to 0.5M vehicles if and when it reaches full capacity.

If even a small amount of the proposed global growth in lithium-ion batteries comes online from EVs and stationary storage, it will have a large impact on demand for both synthetic and natural flake graphite. But consistently low oil prices are likely to limit the consumer uptake of alternative vehicles, at least in the short-term.

Natural and synthetic graphite go head to head
Graphite is used in the anodes of lithium-ion batteries and production of anode material takes place almost entirely in China. Both natural and synthetic graphite compete for use with the choice coming down to performance and cost. Natural graphite needs to be purified and shaped to form spherical graphite in order to achieve a similar purity and the specifications provided by synthetic graphite. For many years, natural graphite offered a less expensive alternative but, with synthetic graphite prices beginning to fall in 2015, Roskill expects that these two graphite products will come into increasing competition in the coming years.

Chinese dominance wavering?

China will continue to be the largest producer of both natural and synthetic graphite, accounting for around 67% and 45% of output respectively in 2015. But the Chinese natural graphite industry has undergone major consolidation in recent years and seen a series of closures. Almost all amorphous mining is now under the control of one state-owned enterprise, South Graphite, which has permanently closed around 90 of its 210 mines since it began to take ownership in 2010.

Natural flake graphite consumers worldwide fear similar closures in the Chinese flake industry. During 2014 and 2015, a number of natural flake graphite mines were closed for failing to meet tightening environmental standards and some consolidation took place. The lithium-ion battery anode material manufacturer Shenzheng BTR New Energy Material, for example, is leading consolidation in the Jixi region of Heilongjiang province. In mid-2015, a new Government plan was announced to reduce the number of producers in Heilongjiang to just 20 by 2020.

China continues to shape the flake graphite industry through a system of trading taxes and rebates. These are aimed to encourage the domestic production of higher value, processed flake graphite products, such as spherical and expanded graphite, while at the same time discouraging the import of high value products and the export of graphite as a raw material.

A number of natural graphite projects are under development in the rest of the world to meet growth in lithium-ion battery demand but low prices have limited the development of flake graphite projects over the last three to four years. Although some of these flake projects have begun to operate, two new producers were forced to halt production in 2015.

Growth in both the synthetic graphite and the natural flake graphite industries to 2020 will depend on the amount of new demand from lithium-ion batteries, and other emerging markets, and on the timescale of this implementation. Demand for natural amorphous graphite will fall as alternative raw materials take an increasing market share. The way forward for graphite is both dynamic and complex.

hxxp://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/graphite-out-with-the-old-in-with-the-new-564823301.html

comet5d
11/2/2016
13:11
VW aims to release world’s first high-volume electric car
By James Ayre on 9 February 2016

As part of its principled shift away from diesel vehicles towards electrics following the diesel emissions cheating scandal (or, more likely, as part of its image rehabilitation strategy), Volkswagen recently revealed that it is now intending to release the world’s first high-volume, mass market electric car.

The purported model is intended to be a competitor to the Tesla Model 3 and to GM’s Chevy Bolt — going by comments made by company reps anyways. No exact pricing has been revealed as of yet for the currently theoretical mass market offering.

One is of course probably right to remain skeptical about the company’s willingness to actually bring such a model to market anytime in the near future — rehabilitating its image, on the other hand, is an immediate concern. So one wonders how serious it is.

At any rate, here’s more via Autoblog:

Using new 48-volt onboard power supply technology that will deliver a real-world range of at least 186 miles, the unnamed vehicle is understood to be part of an innovative plan by newly installed Volkswagen CEO, Dr Herbert Diess, to improve the brand’s image.

Dr Diess wants to make his mark in the automotive world with the world’s first high-volume, accessible electric car and although it will share much of its technology with the EV version of the upcoming eighth-generation VW Golf, it will do so with a lower cost. Although it’s not clear whether the car will be a sedan or a hatch, it will offer unique styling and a potentially better cruising range than the e-Golf.

It’s not clear yet whether the company is planning to release the new unnamed EV before or after the release of the next-gen e-Golf — which is still a few years off (~2018).

comet5d
11/2/2016
10:26
Tribeca fund getting alpha returns out of commodity rout 10 Feb 2016 http://www.afr.com/business/mining/tribeca-the-fund-getting-alpha-returns-out-of-the-commodity-rout-20160210-gmqkxq#ixzz3zqkiqjFt ...betting on the slide in the oil price since 2014, by shorting the shares of high-cost, indebted US shale companies. It has also taken long positions in lithium and graphite stocks, while it has backed capital raisings from Evolution Mining and Northern Star, which have picked up high-quality mines it knows well from the majors.
illuminati1
11/2/2016
10:17
Comet.....what % of lithium batteries contains natural graphite and what % is synthetic.
beeezzz
09/2/2016
20:17
OPINION: Lithium batteries can secure India's energy requirements in future
comet5d
09/2/2016
20:00
Stratmin - Tirupati IndiaWill fast-growing India be able to replace China's demand for African commodities?Kate Douglas on '9 February 2016'Over the past 30 years China has embraced international trade and encouraged investments, allowing foreign companies to capitalise on its low-cost advantage by setting up production facilities and factories. These investments fuelled an export-led growth.However, things are changing. China's economy has slowed considerably, with growth last year (6.9%) being the lowest in 25 years. And according to Dr Anil Gupta – the Michael Dingman Chair in global strategy and entrepreneurship at the University of Maryland – it is likely growth rates will decline further as China shifts from an investment to a consumption-driven economy, led by domestic demand for goods and services.The result is a slowing appetite for hard commodities, such as iron ore, aluminium and coal, which China has been a major consumer of globally. This holds particular relevance for resource-rich Africa since the Asian powerhouse is its largest trading partner. Recent data shows the continent's exports to China in 2015 are down 38% from the previous year, while Chinese direct investment into Africa fell 40% in the first half of 2015.On the other hand, India's economic growth outpaced China's last year, averaging 7.5% – with growth for the year ending March 2016 forecast to accelerate to 7.6%. And the World Bank predicts that India will be the world's fastest growing large economy for the foreseeable future.Speaking at the Investing in African Mining Indaba in Cape Town yesterday, Gupta said it will take India about 15 years to reach the economic size of China today, with its economy in 2016 being compared to China's in 2001.But will its demand for commodities from 2016 to 2030 be like China's between 2001 and 2015? Probably not, according to Gupta. While the country has opened itself up for foreign investment and is positioning itself as a manufacturing hub for exports such as smartphones and vehicles, its economy is "likely to be driven simultaneously by growth in investments and consumption". This is fundamentally different to China's previous fast-paced growth that was almost entirely driven by investments, and Gupta believes the difference is in part due to India's democratic governance."Also the growth of India over the next 15 years will take place in a different context... to China's growth over the last 15 years."Climate change concerns – which China was less sympathetic towards – has shaped today's global agenda, and Gupta argues India will be more focused on clean growth. The result will be a stronger push towards renewable energy sources and a slower growth in demand for fossil fuels. India is also a leading iron-ore exporter with large reserves of thermal coal, making it less reliant on these imports.So while there may be a demand for specialty materials such as lithium, titanium, cobalt and GRAPHITE, Gupta believes India's demand for major commodities will not pick up to the extent of China's over the last 15 years, even if its economy accelerates to 8-10%."Therefore, over the next decade, India will compensate only marginally for the loss of growth in commodity demand from China. I think we can bet our money on that."However, the solution to waning demand for African commodities could come from Africa itself. Gupta noted there is a huge opportunity to tap into the continent's manufacturing potential, which is considerably underdeveloped. Value addition in its largest economy Nigeria, for example, is just a small percentage of GDP."India's manufacturing value-added to GDP is about 17-18%, and that of course is very weak because China's is about 30%... But in Nigeria, what is the contribution of manufacturing value-added? About 4-5%," he highlighted."If [Africa's manufacturing] story plays out... there should be a significantly greater demand for commodities from Africa itself, and therefore put Africa on the demand side, not just the supply side, so it can begin to shoulder a greater chunk of the world economy."
comet5d
09/2/2016
19:33
Where is the update that was due by end of Jan?
pictureframe
09/2/2016
16:36
Insider to both parties provides interest free loan. Looking good.Beaufort Securities Stratmin Global Resources (LON:STGR, 2.88p) - Speculative BuyYesterday, Stratmin Global Resources (Stratmin) informed that on 1st February 2016, Consolidated Resources agreed to provide an unsecured loan facility of up to A$200,000 to Graphmada Mauritius, the company's 93.5% subsidiary. So far, £24,212 has been drawn down. The funds availed under the facility are free of interest rate. Consolidated Resources has expressed interest in about 11.10% of the issued share capital of Stratmin. David Premraj would represent Consolidated Resources on the board of Stratmin and Bass Metals.Our view: The receipt of an unsecured loan facility from Consolidated Resources enables Stratmin to seamlessly continue expanding its operations in Loharano. This facility follows the company's completion of its first funding tranche of £0.5m from ASX-listed Bass Metals. The funding provided by Bass Metals in the past few months led to improvements at Loharano operations. In addition, Stratmin has ordered a new power supply solution for the plant and a new diesel generator. The company also plans to seek further funding from Bass Metals this year. We look forward to more progressive developments from the Loharano operations during the year. Therefore, we maintain our Speculative Buy rating on the stock.
illuminati1
07/2/2016
12:41
Oops wrong thread!!
beeezzz
05/2/2016
12:33
The Challenging 'Material Reality' Tesla Faces
Seeking Alpha 5 February

comet5d
03/2/2016
17:45
Elon Musk says Tesla’s next home battery is coming this year
comet5d
03/2/2016
16:08
World Energy Council Report: Energy Storage Has Solid FutureJanuary 26th, 2016 by Glenn MeyersRenewable energy storage endeavors appear to be highly attractive business models worldwide for the year 2016.A report from the World Energy Council states worldwide solar energy storage platforms will become more competitive as new battery technologies drive prices down. On the wind storage front, technical advances in areas such as composite materials appears to enable the power generated by wind turbines to increase.With the cost of capturing and storing wind and solar energy coming down, energy storage deployment across the world will increase, finds the report.But focusing only on cost issues may lead to misconceptions about the real value of energy storage is the conclusion of this report, "E-storage – shifting from cost to value.""Following rapid cost reductions and significant improvements in capacity and efficiency, the global energy sector is captivated by the promise of deploying energy storage alongside renewables. Storage is promoted as the "game-changer" which could contribute to solving the volatility challenge of wind and solar electricity generation. Whilst there is plenty of visionary thinking, business models are not always fully understood and there are not many studies on cost data.""Energy storage is a critical catalyst of the energy transition whose benefits are still undervalued. The costs have already come down, but will have to fall further for a much broader roll-out and use in household and E-mobility," said Christoph Frei, Secretary General of the World Energy Council."The investment community has good reason to be excited about the innovation and business models that will emerge from new opportunities."According to Solar Server, energy storage costs expected to fall by as much as 70% over the next 15 years.Although batteries are currently too expensive for large-scale use, technology improvements will cut costs, opening pathways for how some utility scale storage systems to be configured. Such a transition in such an energy storage infrastructure might also spur new plant engineering and lead to reduced demand for fossil fuels."There is a bright future for energy storage with significant innovation potential. With the cost of capturing and storing wind and solar energy coming down, its deployment across the world will increase. The market is right to be enthusiastic about storage of energy, not just because of the cost reductions that it brings, but also because of additional revenue and other benefits that specific technologies in specific contexts can deliver," said Frei.The report issues five recommendations to policymakers:Go beyond just cost factorsExamine storage through comprehensive case studiesWork with operators and regulators to accelerate the development of flexible marketsEstablish policies and a regulatory framework which facilitate commercial deployment of storage technologiesConsider storage as a key component for grid modernizationThe World Energy Council report is authored by 23 leading industry and academic experts from across the world who are in the World Energy Council Storage Knowledge Network. The 23rd World Energy Congress in Istanbul, Turkey in October 2016.http://cleantechnica.com/2016/01/26/world-energy-council-report-energy-storage-solid-future/
comet5d
31/1/2016
21:19
Pattersons?

Fingers crossed for a decent pump at least.



From the December 2015 Quarterly report:

"The terms of the settlement require Lion Gold to pay a minimum of A$1,150,000 in cash and a further A$1,350,000 in cash and shares all before 30 June 2015.

The Company is pleased to report that to date they have received A$300,000 in cash and further substantial funds are due to be received before the end of January 2016."

So maybe an update on BSM payments of the first part of the £1.5m to STGR next week, to get the ball rolling?

And hopefully not the almost immediate announcement of a placing which has been forward sold into the rise? (Perhaps like AGQ's?)

Fingers crossed......Rampers "Do your stuff".

(Be interesting to see what Holdings RNS's there are for AGQ, as they were diluted several times......so there should be some?)

thegrumpster
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