Sportech Share Discussion Threads

[utterly pointless] 13/5/2016 15:14

yep. as predicted.

[somerset lad] 13/5/2016 15:10

So, HMRC has asked for permission to appeal from the Court of Appeal. This is not at all a surprise (although no doubt the market will be shocked): there's virtually no cost to HMRC in asking and it's much easier to say "We tried everything" than "We decided not to bother about the £97m of public funds". It is equally clear (IMO - PDYOR) that the CA will say "no" leaving HMRC to ask the Supreme Court for permission (and it is very likely - IMO / DYOR - that the Supreme Court will refuse).

[yesrupnel] 13/5/2016 15:09

Following the announcement on 4 May 2016 that the Court of Appeal found in favour of Sportech in the Group's appeal case relating to a GBP97m VAT repayment claim on the "Spot the Ball" game, Her Majesty's Revenue & Customs ("HMRC") has informed Sportech that it has asked the Court of Appeal for permission to appeal to the Supreme Court against the decision.

Sportech has been advised that it should expect to hear whether HMRC have been granted the right to appeal by the Court of Appeal within the next two weeks

[utterly pointless] 13/5/2016 13:44

no idea. i think hmrc have til 4.30 to lodge a document if rns today, may be to say hmrc have lodged. if none, likely to be because they haven't, i'd guess.

[yesrupnel] 13/5/2016 13:34

So do you think Sportech will issue an RNS by 18:00 today?

[utterly pointless] 13/5/2016 13:21

They will lodge a document with the Court of Appeal. Whether they do so not, I think, published immediately. But Sportech will make a statement. Even if they do, vanishingly unlikely the CA or Supreme Court will give them permission.

[yesrupnel] 13/5/2016 12:03

Do HMRC have until 17:00?

[yesrupnel] 13/5/2016 12:03

I assume there are just a few hours to go before we know if HMRC are going to appeal.

Is there any source/site that we can look at to see what the outcome is?

[nod] 10/5/2016 21:22

Sportech's low over the past 3 years was in 2014 when it fell just below 50p following the decision if the Upper Tribunal in favour of HMRC, a decision which has now been overturned. Over the past six years the share price has been driven by the VAT claim, which was filed in 2009. The saga is getting close to the end at last.

[bad gateway] 10/5/2016 20:12

Lol

This is thread that keeps on giving.

Not to mention those individuals with multiple accounts

The old ramp trick will not work here.

Shorting is a little risky as SB companies will give a poor spread on a short

[bad gateway] 10/5/2016 16:30

Could easily fall back to 10p - this is usual for this share.

Remark - what price did you buy in? You could lose your shirt here.

[finkie] 09/5/2016 11:02

HMRC should pay SPO legal costs as they appealed and lost the company should be able to advise on this now I would think....

[trentendboy] 09/5/2016 08:45

This should be reaching the 90p mark - strange the city still seem a little worried about the outcome.

Odds? Must be 80% now that the money will come through.

Better keep it off the front page of the DailyMail though

[nod] 07/5/2016 03:38

Spot the BallThe actual position of the ball has been removed from the photo.

[nod] 07/5/2016 03:14

With regard to games that are a combination of luck and skill, the Act determined the following Section 52(6) of the Gaming Act 1968 provided:- "In determining for the purposes of this Act whether a game, which is played otherwise than against one or more players, is a game of chance and skill combined, the possibility of superlative skill eliminating the element of chance shall be disregarded". Spot the Ball did not use the actual position of the ball, instead a football celebrity or similar picked the position of the ball after the game was closed for entries. The original photo may not have even shown a ball.There is obviously no skill involved in picking the exact same centre of a fictitious ball as another person. It has to be chance ... or coincidence.

[nod] 06/5/2016 18:35

The UTT judge found in favour of HMRC on the basis that punters were not playing a game when they entered Spot the Ball. I strongly disagreed with his conclusion. I was a player of the game for a few years.Final paragraph in UTT decision."44. For these reasons I would allow the appeal. Operators of "Spot the Ball" competitions are not providing facilities for the playing of games of chance so as to fall within the Exemption. There is no "game": and completing and posting a coupon is not "playing". "

[mark1000] 06/5/2016 13:12

Trent - Price on hold pending 13/05 - do agree with others if they go back to the Court of Appeal they will have to build a case - probably the best they can do is to say 97 million is a lot of money from the public purse so there is a public interest but is that really good enough? If the case is that they believe that Spot the Ball is a game of skill not chance then they have to prove it - if they cannot convince the Court of Appeal on this fact I really do not see it going further. Thought the Supreme Court is to look at arguments over points of law not fact so may be their argument could be if the game is 99% luck and 1% skill that meets the skill requirement I really doubt this will go further but may be this is just wishful thinking on my part.

[trentendboy] 05/5/2016 11:12

Has it risen enough? I think there should be more to go.Be interesting to see a broker update

[utterly pointless] 05/5/2016 10:50

Done. Do remind me if I forget and I'll try to do the same.

[somerset lad] 05/5/2016 10:23

Utterly Pointless, I'm very happy to -- loser pays £50 to charity of winner's choice?

[utterly pointless] 05/5/2016 07:43

I'll have a charity bet with you that they won't even ask for permission?

[somerset lad] 05/5/2016 07:24

HMRC is bound to try to appeal for two reasons. First, it's easier to tell the Treasury that they tried everything and the courts said "no" than to say they gave up. Secondly, the costs of seeking permission to appeal are low and, if permission happened to be granted, it would by definition be a potentially winnable case.

But IMO, FWIW, it is almost certain that the Court of Appeal will refuse permission to appeal, and the prospects of the Supreme Court themselves granting permission are low as it looks like the application of established law to the facts, rather than a legal point of public importance. As always though DYOR.

[nod] 05/5/2016 03:50

I'm guessing not much will happen until HMRC gives its decision at some date before 13 May. Fingers crossed HMRC decide not to ask for an appeal and drag this claim out another year or two. Two judges sat on the FTT and one judge on the UTT. So the score is at least 3-1 to SPO.The way would then be clear to sell the Football Pools to the former COO and his investors.Selling The Football Pools will result in a significant loss of profit though. As the financials show every year it's a cash cow.

[mark1000] 04/5/2016 21:12

Legal costs do they not go to the victor ? normally the victor wins interests and costs although not the profit share - any lawyers around?