Smith (ds) Share Discussion Threads

[moneypenny2018] 17/6/2019 15:56

Computer driven hedge funds in da house but they need to get out soon :)

[moneypenny2018] 17/6/2019 15:49

Put several 10k wort of physical share buys and trades appear as sells ... I can see what they are doing.

[moneypenny2018] 17/6/2019 15:46

Citadel trying their best not to lose any money on their short... need to close it but they need to do it tactfully :)

[nickname27] 17/6/2019 14:53

wtf is going on today? Multiple 5% intra day swings are not normal, even for this.

[petersinthemarket] 17/6/2019 14:43

Ignore brokers, they are only playing their own book.

btw, I am also wholly against share buyback. Waste of money. Plough it into the business or pay it back to investors. Without investors, there would be no business.

[nickname27] 17/6/2019 12:23

Not exports though, they have hundreds of mills and plants inside the EU. If there's a no-deal that affects trade it will also crash Sterling which will make their foreign revenue much more valuable.

Of course foreign investors may just be peed off with the whole country and be dumping them anyway but I suspect that has already mostly happened.

[gabsterx] 17/6/2019 12:01

It seems that 70% of their revenue comes from within Europe, fear of a BJ government could be weighing on the price. Fundamentals are still rock solid so it's a strong buy at this price.

[nickname27] 17/6/2019 11:33

The latter. Not just the MF though, pretty much as soon as anything is highlighted in a the press it plummets shortly after ;)

[gabsterx] 17/6/2019 10:58

nickname, why "touch of death"? Last few articles from MF were positive. Or has there been a trend where once they praise a company the share price tanks?

[nickname27] 17/6/2019 10:39

It was meant tongue in cheek. I also think buybacks are a terrible idea for a company but when everyone else is doing them you might need to go with the crowd. Companies are basically competing for investor's love and your share price is bound to fall behind the ones who are if you don't, all else being equal.

I'm wondering now if this is at least partly what's attracting hedgies because they don't look overvalued or to have any systemic problems other than being British. Well run profitable and growing company with international revenue and an in-demand product that increasingly has the regulatory and environmental winds behind it. What is not to like?

I see it got the motley fool touch of death last week but honestly, 5% yield and 10x forward p/e? They're going to need an almighty and unforeseen crash in earnings to justify the current price.

[jeffian] 17/6/2019 10:36

Absolutely agree with loganair. Buybacks are management using real (our) cash to try to boost the share price by massaging the NAV and EPS upwards. Unfortunately, the market is an emotional, rather than mathematical, mechanism so every £1 spent will not necessarily be converted into an equivalent increase in the share price. As a shareholder in Whitbread, I am currently waiting to see how much of the £2bn(!) cash being "returned" to us following the sale of Costa will actually find its way into my pocket or added directly to the share price. I am not holding my breath.

As for buying back "undervalued" shares, that rather depends on how "value" is assessed. There may be a case if a company's shares are trading at a substantial discount to its underlying assets (the argument currently being used by EI Group whose shares trade at a discount of 40% to its freehold property portfolio) but in the case of SMDS, its 'Net Asset Value' of £3.112bn (equivalent to £2.34/share) actually includes £3.2bn of Intangible Assets.

[loganair] 17/6/2019 10:28

I completely disagree, how ever undervalued shares may be as good management would be able to deploy this money some where better to grow the company.

If do not know where to invest, then I think far better to pay a 'Special Dividend'

I'm reminded of BWIN, who's management kept buying back shares and yet the share price kept falling until taken over by GVC.

In the long run, it seems to me share buy backs just waste a companies money rather then returning any long term value to the share holders.

[gabsterx] 17/6/2019 10:04

Buybacks are a good idea when shares are undervalued, in the case of DS Smith right now their shares are trading at a bargain, so buying them back would return value to the shareholders and show that the company has confidence that their shares are undervalued.

That being said I don't know why people are selling off SMDS, could it be Brexit fears and many of their customers being in Europe?

[loganair] 17/6/2019 09:56

I am never in favour of share buy backs, shows the senior management have no idea of where best to invest any excess cash.

When it comes to the S&P 500 in the USA, over the past 10 years 65% of all increase of EPS has been because of share buy backs and in the past 4 years 85% of EPS increase have been because of share buy backs rather then real growth.

[nickname27] 17/6/2019 09:35

This company needs a buyback program. It's the only way to keep up with the index these days.

[97peter] 14/6/2019 19:17

The shortest again have sold out when price rose by 6%. Then will buy in again at 345p. Wait for the price to get to 375, then sell agai. Leave this good UK share to do well and grow in EU and globally.

[discodave4] 13/6/2019 17:01

"Before adjusting items of GBP90 million (as set out in note 3) and amortisation of GBP114 million".

[yf23_1] 13/6/2019 16:36

I had a quick read this am before work, but didn't find what the EPS was adjusted for.
Anyone know the big items ?

[discodave4] 13/6/2019 14:17

"Earnings per share were impacted in the period by the equity rights issue on 25 July 2018".

[discodave4] 13/6/2019 13:28

Just a quick question, adjusted eps was 35.5p last year so how does 33.3p represent an 8% increase?.Tempted with these as been on my watch list for a while.Thanks

[heapos] 13/6/2019 13:16

I only bought x7 stocks last December.
Gocompare
Amazon
DS Smith
Hays
RBS
Phoenix.
Netflix.
With the intention of doing nothing with them but watch over the course of 12 months from purchase and bank the dividends for those that pay one. Amazon and Netflix don't.
I'm not able to day trade or have the intellect to do so when compared to the financial institutions.
Ps I'm not putting this info on here to "punt" any of the stocks I bought into - but because you guys on here, all seem to know a lot more than I do - so thanks to all who have commented and offered advice. Really appreciated and very helpful.
Cheers.

[1nf3rn0] 13/6/2019 13:07

If you're just starting off, from my own experience, I'd suggest not spreading yourself too thinly across many individual company stocks, especially if you are tempted to trade them ( 1. It's a lot to manage, 2. Fees quickly start to eat away at profits).What works for me is a core super long term holding of boring index trackers and funds which i continually add to, covering global developed, emerging markets and smaller companies (maybe 75% / 80% of portfolio and more heavily weighted to the former). Around that I invest in more speculative / higher risk, by which I mean picking individual shares such as DS Smith. This is the more "fun" element for me, but of course open to risk of bad judgement calls. The core holding however ensures that even on a bad year for my own personal stock picking I shouldn't underperform the market too horrendously. I'm sure others have alternative (and better) strategies, but I think something like this will avoid you getting burnt too badly as a newbie.