Severfield Share Discussion Threads

[itchycrack] 03/4/2013 13:55

Me too, in full!

[hyden] 03/4/2013 13:45

5th April. I too have taken up my rights in full, so you are not alone.

[jadeticl] 03/4/2013 11:44

I have chosen to pay for all my rights issue--which I agree does not look to be the deal of the century in the short term, but I am expecting this comapny to come good eventually. When does this whole business of rights issues complete??

[ricatcoatham] 22/3/2013 17:10

Hi dogray sfr is not for widows & orphans but if you've any spare cash it's worth topping up your holding. By the time any solid evidence comes through the market will have reacted positively leaving the pi's way behind.

[sandlab] 22/3/2013 15:07

Nope. I am taking some of the Rights but I don't see much upside here in the near term and don't wish to get overweight in SFR. Agree with ESWR there.

Until the economy really picks up and assuming SFR are still a going concern it is going to be tough for them. IMHO...

[eswr] 22/3/2013 14:04

So Edison are saying no dividend until 2015 and EPS of around 1.5 pence for 12 months to March 2014 and then 3 pence for year to March 2015. I would not want to value this at more than 20 x 2014 forecast EPS until there was clear evidence of margin recovery and improving revenues. I think fair value is closer to 30 pence than 40 pence at this stage.

[dogray123] 22/3/2013 12:03

Many thanks sandlab Thinking of buying some more what do you think

[sandlab] 22/3/2013 11:29

dogray123 - on the quotes page you need to hit the Search button and then also highlight "Right" on "Select Stock Types". That will also bring up nil-paid Rights data.

The code is SFRN

[dogray123] 22/3/2013 10:56

I cant find a quote for the nil paid right on ADVFN can anyone help Thanks

[eswr] 20/3/2013 22:05

You could take up all your rights and then sell some of them in next tax year

[sandlab] 20/3/2013 15:01

The SFR Rights Issue will complete just before the end of this tax year. That could have implications for anybody who thought that they had arranged their net gains to fall just within this year's CGT allowance.

If I allow the Rights to lapse or take up only a part, whatever is left will be sold in the market - and the way the sale is treated, assuming the nil-paid Rts have some value, is not straightforward.

There is a detailed description in the link below of the treatment for the sale of nil-paid Rights:



If I have worked out the various possibilities correctly for the nil-paid Rights for my own holding of SFR it is in my interest to take up enough of the Rights to leave me in the "Small Cash" area. If I sell all the nil-paid I end up in the "Large Cash" area and will then, if believe, be forced to take the resulting CGT loss for SFR this tax year. That will leave me with a chunk of my CGT allowance unused, but I won't know how much unused until I sell the nil-paids. Had I bought SFR around 1995 I would probably be looking at a CGT gain for the a sale of all the SFR nil-paid Rights (not that I did) and would go above my annual CGT allowance for this tax year.

If I take up all my SFR Rights, I don't have to think about the implications until some time in the future, when the shares have recovered (ahem!).

Sorry for the ramble. I am not a tax expert but hope this may alert others to some possibly unexpected implications here.

hvs - Thank you for reminding me why I have been meaning to filter you for puerile and destructive posts on other boards. Job done.

[eswr] 20/3/2013 11:32

I would sell enough of the rights to raise the cash to take up the remainder - i.e. not increase my % exposure.

[bluesbeater] 19/3/2013 20:28

good company going through a difficult patch. Took my rights today.
Remember when Rolls Royce hit the 50p mark and look at them today 10 years on! Buy and hold may yet prove a winner

[ricatcoatham] 19/3/2013 17:36

A profit is not a profit, or loss, until the shares are sold. As for me I'll take up my rights and wait, you never know we may be in around the bottom.

[eswr] 19/3/2013 17:26

Yes, for no good reason the valuation ticked up quite a lot but then came back. The real question is what is this business worth? The analyst at Canaccord whom I talked to agreed with me that

- it will be a long hard slog for them to achieve 5 to 6% margins
- although the rights issue will pay down the debt they could easily need more capital for which reason they have the debt facility - they could absorb for working capital purposes [£20m] which is quite small relative to their turnover of over £250m
- even when they have achieved 5 to 6% margins it will leave them after a normalised tax charge and assuming £260m of revenues around 3.1 to 3.7 pence of earnings - PE of say 10 x = 31 to 37 pence per share; potential dividend of 1 pence?
NOTE THAT THIS IS NOT NEAR TERM PROFIT PERFORMANCE but they will reach it "over time"

[arabstrap303] 19/3/2013 16:13

At the 43.5p earlier, I was definitely up 20% on the day. Looks like we're going below 40p now though.

[arabstrap303] 19/3/2013 16:12

Absolutely, mine was over 3 quid 8-( !

Buy and hold eh - what a strategy.

[sandlab] 19/3/2013 15:00

If you had bought 3 shares worth 70p each yesterday and you are going to accept the Rts then you will get 7 Rts for which you pay 23p each. So, you end up with..
3 x 70p = 210p
7 x 23p = 161p

Total 10 shares for which you would have paid 371p
i.e. average price of 37.1p share.

Since they are now trading just over 40p, yes, you would be in profit by about roughly 10% (not 20% because the shares you had yesterday have dropped in price today).

Unfortunately, how you you feel about this one-day profit depend on your true average buying price before yesterday - and mine was well above 70p :-(

[arabstrap303] 19/3/2013 13:07

So, rather than the 40% drop it looks like on first look, this is a 20% gain on the day.

[arabstrap303] 19/3/2013 13:05

Ok, so I have got 7 npr's for every 3 shares I have - not the other way around like some comments I have seen on various bulletin boards.

My shares are trading at 42.25, and my NPR's at 19 at the moment. Doing the sums, my total holding value is equivalent to 86p per share if they had not been diluted - that's well above the 71p they were trading at yesterday.

[dogray123] 19/3/2013 13:04

Nil paid right 18.5p to sell