Raven Prop P Discussion Threads

[williamcooper104] 17/3/2022 21:21

Eventually they have to produce accounts or have the company stuck off - but can go quite some time before having to do that Those accounts can be issued and signed of on a none going concern basis (I did that in the credit crunch)

[dandigirl] 17/3/2022 21:00

keith95: because it is clutching at straws, it isn't important to whether or not payment is received at the end of the month. Lots of things may happen after the end of the month. I would love them to pay but payment just isn't going to happen. What happens after that is in accordance with Pref terms if the company survives.

gfrae seems of the view that payment is likely to be received when likely it isn't.

You go on to make my point - accumulation after the event will more than likely will be worth diddly, so why do you try to make a point of it when there isn't one? Strewth. That's why I didn't think it needed adding. You can't have it both ways.

No, William, they don't have to produce accounts. It would be prudent to do so, especially if they wish to keep on the right side of regulators etc., but they don't have to. Much depends on their personal circumstances, motivation and future agendas. Much also depends on what shenanigans are going on behind the scenes.

To finish, frankly, I am surprised that the Pref is unlikely to be paid. Given who owns these Prefs, what better way to remove some cash from the company all legal and above board. There is a glimmer of hope but the pessimist in me is not expecting receipt.

[keith95] 17/3/2022 19:56

"supposed justification for de-listing"

Quilter have apparently written off their Raven investment ...

//portfolio-adviser.com/raven-property-to-de-list-after-russian-sanctions-make-it-impracticable-to-carry-on/

So the directors may get little opposition to the idea of delisting.

[williamcooper104] 17/3/2022 19:31

They'll still have to produce accounts even if de-listed

[williamcooper104] 17/3/2022 19:30

Yep - don't disagree - more saying that I would be very skeptical of any supposed justification for de-listing

[keith95] 17/3/2022 19:26

dandigirl:

RAV have informed at least twice: """it remains unlikely that the Company will pay the preference share coupon for the quarter ending 31 March 2022"""

any reason you missed out this part from your quote?

" and this will accumulate in accordance with the terms of the instrument. A further announcement will be made prior to the scheduled payment date."

Accumulating 12p a year is still zero if nothing is paid and the preference shares are rendered worthless ....

... but you are selectively editing the RNS.

[dandigirl] 17/3/2022 18:35

William: The directors do not wish to follow this route, do they? They do not intend to produce accounts, even heavily qualified.

[williamcooper104] 17/3/2022 18:21

Ditto - there's a big stink here

[williamcooper104] 17/3/2022 18:20

You can stay listed and produced accounts with no going concern/heavily caveated going concern opinion From memory Battersea Power station when it was listed and obviously bust did this

[dandigirl] 17/3/2022 18:15

gfrae;

You wrote: """The March coupon will be paid according to it's terms"""

RAV have informed at least twice: """it remains unlikely that the Company will pay the preference share coupon for the quarter ending 31 March 2022"""

You wrote: """Presumably shareholders can vote against delisting if they want, in which case there will be no put option to vote against""".

RAV informs: """The Directors have confirmed their support for the Transaction and the De-listings. The Company has discussed the De-listings in detail with its major shareholders and expects their support at the relevant meetings""".

Take a looksee at the major shareholders - ords and prefs - and it can be seen that this will be successful whatever the minority shareholders may want.

Moreover, RAV also inform """Shareholders should note that, if the de-listing of the ordinary shares proceeds, shareholders will not be able to vote on the exercise of the put option by the Company""".

One more thing, if RAV do not produce audited accounts, the shares would be suspended anyway. Producing unqualified audited accounts is impossible. I suggest that the directors would not be able to sign off a going concern statement.

Hope this helps.

[my retirement fund] 17/3/2022 15:13

Poor Kenny!

[purchaseatthetop] 17/3/2022 14:28

TBTT….happens when you actually have assets! And greedy management.

[gfrae] 17/3/2022 14:26

The put belongs to the company !
The company has been brought to this position by sanctions, exchange controls and their consequences........against whom would you litigate ?

[williamcooper104] 17/3/2022 13:57

Nominal consideration and de-listing the company Litigation equity?????

[waterfall city] 17/3/2022 13:53

I wonder if any income from the new to be issued prefs will go towards paying the existing pref coupon.

[gfrae] 17/3/2022 13:47

The management only get the company if RAV exercise the put. I would like to know the terms of the put.

[stemis] 17/3/2022 13:47

RPG will end up with preference shares in RRHCL of £678m so presumably if there is any value in RRHCL up to this level (which is more than the NAV of RPG pre sale) then it will accrue to RPG rather than the Russian shareholders?

Not sure why you think RPG will go bust?

[keith95] 17/3/2022 13:37

"and this will accumulate in accordance with the terms of the instrument."

.. but only while the company exists.

Selling the company for "nominal consideration" suggests to me that equity holders will be all but wiped out in name in favour of the Russian management team.


Once ownership is moved, "RPG will hold the loan and preference share assets above along with any cash balances"

.. so RPG can be allowed to go bust leaving lenders and preference share holders out of pocket, subject to any "cash balance".

[williamcooper104] 17/3/2022 13:31

It does smell - a lot Russian management team are getting all the assets (and accept almost certainly under water at moment) for a nominal consideration So if they negotiate haircuts and things recover existing RAVP/RAV shareholders get a debt return and management get all the assets Amongst all the noise is that not basically what's happening???? (I note that RAV was one of the better corporately governed Russian companies)

[gfrae] 17/3/2022 11:53

Dandi, in what respect ?
a/ In light of the above, it remains unlikely that the Company will pay the preference share coupon for the quarter ending 31 March 2022 and this will accumulate in accordance with the terms of the instrument. A further announcement will be made prior to the scheduled payment date.
And b/ Shareholders can vote how they wish.
Thats as at the current time, is there something that I am not aware of that you are referring to ?

[cc2014] 17/3/2022 11:28

So, I can't say I fully understand this scheme but:

1. If shares delist, shareholders can't vote on scheme. What? What has a delisting got to do with shareholder rights? Will Quilter who own 30% (from memory or it that the prefs?) be happy with that? Can Quilter get enough support to stop it or are they in on this wheeze.
2. Due to sanctions Raven want to put an intermediate company in the middle in Cyprus so money can be extracted from Russia without sanctions and then um presumably forwarded to shareholders many of whom are in the UK as Cyprus aren't subject to sanctions.
3. The intermediate company seems likely a way to extract any remaining value at the expense of existing shareholders.
4. How do they get this option past the existing bondholders? I have no idea. Unless of course they are VTB bank?


I don't think it much matters anyway. I see no value here with or without this transaction except for bondholders and the Raven directors who have been pillaging the company for years.

[adae] 17/3/2022 10:41

Some credit to them for giving a possible future return in what was otherwise clearly an insolvent company. The non-Russian directors hold a lot of prefs, and they appear to have been treated the best - still cumulative, but best of all, denominated in £s, not the Rubble.

Will mean nothing if zero is the outcome, but if the supposedly impending negotiated settlement includes a way for Russia to return to the international fold, perhaps by agreeing to have the frozen central bank reserves spent on Ukraine's reconstruction, then in a year's time, things could look very different.

Wouldn't count on it, & foolish holders will be reminded of RAV/RAVP every time they look at their accounts, from now until possibly 2032.

[keith95] 17/3/2022 10:34

…… then again if the delisting goes through and RPG is left holding debt and servicing preference share obligations, with assets transferred to current directors, held in Cyprus, there is no incentive for RPG to do anything other than fold, which I assume will mean that the Russian directors end up with Raven assets, debt free.

So that would be 0p valuation.

[dandigirl] 17/3/2022 10:20

gfrae: I think you need to do some catching up.