Premier African Minerals Share Discussion Threads

[tedoby2] 02/3/2019 14:01

I've done my best to explain the difference between debts and liabilities before Val.

Liabilities can be regarded debts only as and when they fall due for payment. So if creditors agree to postpone their payments as you've suggested for example under law they can't be classified as debts they remain liabilities.

So in theory then if Prem pay their liabilities when they fall due as debts it's perfectly ok for me and others to say Prem has no debts. GR is correct too because he's paying them as and when they've fallen due. It would have been perfectly ok for GR to say he needs to settle some of Prems short term liabilities too.In time and space there's a point when liabilities and debts both become the same and that point is when they fall due for payment.

It follows that debts are always liabilities but liabilities aren't necessarily always debts. It has to be that way in the arena Prem works in to avoid over payments and/or paying for non-compliance items.

Of less significance that's why you'll always see Accountants list future payments as liabilities and never debts. So if you look at Prems accounts you're unlikely to see debts listed there. Future payments are always categorised properly as being liabilities.

You may think what I'm explaining is just semantics. But actually it's not. The distinction between liabilities and debts is a very important one to make under contract law and equally under insolvency law where they're considered entirely different by necessity.

Take for example if you have work done at home say and the party who did the work applies for payment that application should not be regarded as a debt. It can be no more than a liability to pay even if it's an invoice that's been submitted as unfortunately happens sometimes. Almost invariably you as payer have to be happy that the work carried out is what the party was contracted to do. It's generally. not up to the payee to value. That's normally the payers duty and prerogative under law. It doesn't relieve your liability to pay however. It simply gives you the right to value and amend any monies applied for providing it's just.

There are a very small number of exceptions such a work carried out by statutory authorities who's conditions reverse the normal priorities as they insist on being the valuing party. Or perhaps those in the supply chain that may have payment terms on a pro-forma basis as often equipment manufacturers do.

Also Val as you rightly say you don't hear me say negative things about GR/Prem. But that doesn't mean I don't think them and it doesn't mean I don't accept some of the negative things you say. I've always tried to be silent on those issues but it would be wrong of you and others to hold that against me.

GR's misgivings are quite obvious and there for all to to see. But my shouting them from the rooftops all day every day like some do will achieve nothing. George isn't Prem. He's a shareholder albeit a significant one that happens to be Prems CEO at this moment in time. Prem is much bigger than he could ever be and it's not his company. It's yours and mine if your're a shareholder that is and that's my focus here.

As my post says we don't know how the finance from the Government will be effected and that's true we don't. I could hazard a guess but it would be pointless just as your guesses are. They're just opinions.

I've also said that the Governments support whilst looking increasing likely hasn't been confirmed and that's true too. But conversely I've never embarrassed myself like some by propositioning it was all nonsense or pie in the sky and could never happen.

We clearly have differences of opinion Val. But that's actually ok by me. Nevertheless I've always respected yours and I've always treated you with the respect I believe you deserve and I'll always try to.

[valhalla2017] 02/3/2019 11:45

this new twitter handle is the best thing to happen to prem since pam sold out!

and ted - you don't mention what type of currency the finance will be in? also, and this is a small issue but points to a larger difference between your view of the company and mine. remember when you were insistent that prem had no debt and i said it did. when I talked to GR after the raises and he said 'well we needed to do the raise to settle debts'. I've never understood why you can't say one negative thing about GR/prem? If the Zim gov't gave prem 6 million dollars on monday I can guarantee you I would not complain. yet it was clear as day that prem had debts (still does actually) and you would not admit it. odd.

[tedoby2] 02/3/2019 07:10

Despite a considerable number if disbelievers there now seems to be a growing acceptance that the government is in fact prepared to provide finance to resuscitate RHA. To what extent and the details of how it will be effected we've yet to hear. However there can be no denying that if it's right it's going to be a hugely significant milestone in the history of RHA and for Prem. Even more so when you take into consideration the government's financial position and the fact that Prem didn't ask for assistance.

So that takes me back to the MOI's letter to Prem received on 21st December when the offer of finance was first conveyed. I'm reminded that in his letter the MOI is reported to have also said that he "notes that the management contract will need to be renegotiated". To me that simply means what it says and implies he wanted to discuss changes to the shareholder structure.

But like the finance we'll have to wait to see how exactly that translates into a formal agreement. I doubt we'll have to wait much longer now before we hear.

Just to add it will also be interesting to see how the inter-company loan is affected and how Prems management accounts will adjusted when the impairment is removed.

GLA genuine holders

[valhalla2017] 01/3/2019 20:09

Bill - the 6 mil is in Zim bonds. The govt can print as much at it wants since they hold no value. That’s why all these raises. GR needs American dollars. Not zim bonds. This is why I can’t understand why it’s taking so long re RHA. GR must be the worst negotiator. The zim govt printing 6 mil in bonds can be done in a day...

[billthebank] 01/3/2019 17:37

Have to admit.Thst was a lot of large trades this after yet the share price did not flinch.Bizarre. Just 're read the recent RNS and we really are in the hands of the Zim Govt.Wish we had actually seen that letter.OK we have a general agreement but would like more substance.Kind of makes me nervous that George is hiding something? £400k not a lot tbh so maybe just maybe the Zim Govt have tied the KMR deal into the RHA position? Let's hope so. Personally I am hoping the Govt are giving us 90 % ownership as I have no idea where the Govt will find the suggested 6M

[doctor 69] 01/3/2019 17:26

Seems a lot of stock churned no , which is a good thing

[valhalla2017] 01/3/2019 16:12

are those 5m, 10m sells? can't figured it out from the spread. I would think if they were sells they would be sub .09? maybe they are buys? dunno.

[dmitribollokov] 01/3/2019 14:40

Lol - just back got from holiday to see discount placing. £400k before fees? That pays his wages for a year; also how much were the fees? Jobs for the boys. Honestly GR needs investigating, it’s shameless.

[frost1] 01/3/2019 10:17

Val you have just proved my point. Incessant posting on one share. You should get some professional help for your problem.

[valhalla2017] 28/2/2019 23:40

and the LSE board mystery is solved. it's SVS....

[valhalla2017] 28/2/2019 18:48

looks like unfortunately the volume dried up a little this afternoon and we were not able to shift the almost 700m shares that GR dumped into the market this week. hopefully we can clear it by tomorrow morning. that way we can finally focus on the important things like the 'you would not want to be out of this over the weekend' trade.

[valhalla2017] 28/2/2019 17:09

and if you heard what I heard about Circum you would realize why prem/napom have stopped talking about it. very high chance it doesn't happen in 2019. very high. might drag out even longer.

[valhalla2017] 28/2/2019 17:07

I would beg to differ. my posts are not aimed at stifling debate. look at my responses to ted. and I've called this right time after time. when I called a placing was coming (and I knew it was from GR's time in London in Jan) people said I was full of it. and yet it happened at .09. The next raise will be 5 billion at .085 or lower. Unfortunately just the way it is with GR.

[frost1] 28/2/2019 16:28

One megalomaniac dominating lse board same as here.

[valhalla2017] 28/2/2019 16:10

man I feel for those on the lse board at the moment. I hope SVS can shift all their shares soon so the LSE board can go back to a sense of normality.

[valhalla2017] 28/2/2019 14:44

The issue is that GR and co don't really care. GR will spend a good 45 mins about HBR and about the reduced drilling costs once we acquire KME. and then talk about how the market is mis-pricing prem and that with time the true value will show. he has been repeating the same waffle for years. all the while the only increase is in GR's bank account.

I've attended too many of these GR investor events. TBH the best would be if no one showed up. It makes no difference what GR says. the next announcement is the HBR dilution. i'm thinking 5 billion shares at 0.085.

[valhalla2017] 28/2/2019 12:35

Mol - tbh I can't bring myself to attend anymore. There is no point. GR will continue to dilute shareholders until finally there is nothing let. hence HBR - he needs a reason to raise the sharecap. look at the last RNS, already talking about gold/HBR. and look at Ted. same thing. now it's all going to be about gold! story repeats itself.

It's amazing how calm the shareholder group is following the 0.09 raise. what will the next raise be at 0.06? maybe even lower? some say Circum has been GR's greatest investment. I beg to differ. I think Napom has been GR's greatest investment.

[moljen] 28/2/2019 12:26

Val - I can't get down from the North for next week. Are you able to go and raise the relevant questions?

[valhalla2017] 28/2/2019 12:00

insane volume. at this rate I think we will shift through the placing stock by this afternoon. tmr morning at the latest. just in time for the 'you don't want to be out of this over the weekend' trade.

great stuff from GR. can't wait for the upcoming investor event in London! I hope they have the salmon sandwiches again. it's the only thing of value during those events.

[valhalla2017] 28/2/2019 08:49

One little post from napom? What happened to all the ‘GR won’t raise at this level’? Really fighting for shareholders there, eh?

Also, if you look back at the raises over the past 2-3 years you know the next raise will be even lower. Just look at the folks who got suckered in at .18. Yesterday’s was at 0.09. With the burn rate at around 150k a month, this 400k will last until the end of March since we had January debts. Let’s see how low GR will raise at in April....

[valhalla2017] 27/2/2019 20:31

And seriously. Where is napom?

And I wonder know what the share price will be for the HBR raise. I know the rns said 0.085 but the share price will be way below that in a few weeks time so why would HBR pay a premium? Who’s up for 5 billion shares at 0.06!!!

[valhalla2017] 27/2/2019 17:04

did someone seriously pay .11 for 2 mill shares @ 16:14. or is that a misprint?

If it's not a misprint why didn't they wait until next week when they could pick it up in the .07s.