Plus Markets Group Share Discussion Threads

[old thumper] 03/12/2012 07:18

pjw,

I try to avoid articles about him as he still leaves a bad taste in my mouth and this article highlights the reason.

'patent wars'!!!!!

[pjw1956] 03/12/2012 05:53

Morning and thanks Old Thumper, interesting read as is this

"The miserable economic climate is also spurring many firms to consider protecting existing products, said Hirander Misra, a financial technology expert and former operations chief of alternative trading platform Chi-X Europe, now owned by Bats Global.

He said that increasingly squeezed margins in markets such as equity trading meant there was less cash available for investment in new innovations.

That, in turn, could spark an increase in firms looking to protect what they already have in a bid to differentiate themselves through the active use of patents and, increasingly, lawsuits.

He said: "There is every reason to assume the same trend in 'patent wars' will take root here, albeit in a less overtly litigious form."


.¥.¥.¥.¥.¥.¥.¥.¥.¥.¥.¥.¥.¥.¥.¥.¥.¥.¥.¥.¥.¥.¥.¥.¥.¥.¥.¥.¥.¥.¥.¥.¥.¥.¥.¥.¥.¥.¥.
रू.ë2;ू.र370;.रू.रू.ë2;ू.र370;.रू.रू.ë2;ू.र370;.रू.रू.ë2;ू.र370;.रू.रू.ë2;ू.र370;.रू.रू.ë2;ू.र370;.रू.रू.ë2;ू.र370;.रू.रू.ë2;ू.र370;.रू.रू.ë2;ू.र370;.रू.रू.ë2;ू.र370;.
.£.£.£.£.£.£.£.£.£.£.£.£.£.£.£.£.£.£.£.£.£.£.£.£.£.£.£.£.£.£.£.£.£.£.£.£.£.£.
€.€.€.€.€.€.€.€.€.€.€.€.€.€.€.€.€.€.€.€.€.€.€.€.€.€.€.€.€.€.€.€.€.€.€.€.€.€.€.


Full article

Industry braces for patent wars

Tom Osborn
03 Dec 2012

It is one of the classic dilemmas of modern capitalism: do patents foster innovation or do they stifle it? How do lawmakers strike the right balance between protecting innovations through the liberal granting of patents, against the risk of creating monopolies for deep-pocketed firms who can crowd out smaller players?
Industry braces for patent wars

Firms in the US securities markets, particularly exchanges and trading platforms, are increasingly looking to build their own "fortress of intellectual property" through the development of boutique, patented products, said John Ciannamea, a partner at ipCapital Licensing Company, a patent consultancy. They are also willing to defend that IP, Ciannamea added.

He said: "People can see the value in aggressively protecting their patented IP with lawsuits, especially in light of the multimillion-dollar cases in progress at the moment."

He points to the current trio of lawsuits between US derivatives exchange operators Chicago Board Options Exchange Group and the International Securities Exchange.

CBOE has accused ISE of infringing three of its patents, most prominently its options products on the S&P 500 index, and is seeking $500m in damages. Both firms said they could not comment on the outstanding case, and ISE has issued no public statements on the matter.

The IP fortress

The IP that underlies these derivatives is highly valuable. The revenues CBOE garners from index products, where it faces limited competition, are far higher than on highly standardised single stock options, where it faces competition from no fewer than 10 rivals.

During the three months to September 30, the bourse's average transaction fee for index products, at $0.68, was almost six times higher than average fees for single stocks, which stood at $0.12.

Lorna Brazell, an IP lawyer with London law firm Bird & Bird, said the US's friendlier attitude to patent law had made it more attractive for firms, even those operating in Europe, to seek protection there.

Not only is it easier for firms in the US to patent products such as software functions and proprietary code – in Europe, firms must prove that a programme has "real-world" application – it is quicker too.

The US Patent Office has a three-year "guillotine" on all patent applications, after which time a case must be either granted or rejected. In the UK, that figure is four-and-a-half years.

Equally, where firms in the US believe they can defend their patent with a lawsuit, they will readily do so, Brazell added. She said: "In the US, litigation is just another part of business culture.

Customers and competitors sue one another with a kind of 'no hard feelings' attitude all the time. In Europe, firms tend to take a more conservative approach to litigation."

But some argue that the US's freer patent laws and trigger-happy attitude to litigation don't offer enough leeway to firms looking to break into a market.

Parker Bagley, a partner at US law firm Goodwin Procter who has acted for ISE, among others, said the burden of evidence in a US patent lawsuit was on the infringee to prove they hadn't stepped on the holder's toes.

He said: "If you are a company which has been alleged to have infringed a competitor's patent, the laws do put you at a disadvantage."

European shift

European securities firms may have a harder time patenting innovative products, such as trading algorithms, than their US counterparts, but Brazell is not convinced that they are worse off for it.

She said: "In some ways, the European landscape is more competitive, since it allows firms to develop products that compete directly with similar, existing offerings."

The tide is turning, however. The past few years has seen a definite "loosening of the reins" from the European Patent Office as to what constitutes a real-world application of a computer algorithm – something which had encouraged more banks in Europe to consider patenting their proprietary technology, Brazell said.

She cited the example of highly complex algorithms used to generate forward prices for option contracts as one such area.

One London lawyer said she was aware of a multimillion-pound private settlement between two banks in London over an alleged software patent infringement.

The miserable economic climate is also spurring many firms to consider protecting existing products, said Hirander Misra, a financial technology expert and former operations chief of alternative trading platform Chi-X Europe, now owned by Bats Global.

He said that increasingly squeezed margins in markets such as equity trading meant there was less cash available for investment in new innovations.

That, in turn, could spark an increase in firms looking to protect what they already have in a bid to differentiate themselves through the active use of patents and, increasingly, lawsuits.

He said: "There is every reason to assume the same trend in 'patent wars' will take root here, albeit in a less overtly litigious form."

Brazell agrees. Trading firms are paying more and more attention to the patents competitors have pending at the European Patent Office, she said.

The threat of firms retroactively suing for damages incurred while a patent was pending is something firms are taking seriously. Brazell said: "There is an increasing amount of attention paid to what competitors are doing."

[old thumper] 03/12/2012 05:28

Who' side is Spencer on? He almost approve's with Amazon's etc tax policy.

[old thumper] 30/11/2012 18:52

Remember this one being listed?

Going by a quick look at the chart I'm all for it.

[harry f] 30/11/2012 17:46

i see. a bit too subtle for me to pick up on, pjw's always playing that game on me too, lol even when the linkages are obvious.

i just thought "haven't they all got wifi's these days?".

no beer consumption for a bit for me, trying to keep fitter, keeps me alert. running close on half marathon earlier today and the endorphins or whatever have maybe helped.

have a great weekend all.

[old thumper] 30/11/2012 17:39

"i feel content at the moment" a feeling normally hits me after 3 pints in the pub.

Hence the comment about Wi-Fi's, I just got the idea you were sitting there with your laptop!

[harry f] 30/11/2012 16:45

"I see your local has Wi-Fi -)"

?

[old thumper] 30/11/2012 15:47

Harry,

I see your local has Wi-Fi -)

Let's hope the new optimism survives over the weekend.

Happy weekend.

[harry f] 30/11/2012 14:16

missed one pjw ;)



(edit), and another:

[old thumper] 30/11/2012 13:54

pjw,

I'm going to get the last two item's, enlarged and framed and hang it over my loo where they deserve.

Happy weekend.

[pjw1956] 30/11/2012 13:41

GMEG HOLDINGS LIMITED

Directors and Secretaries
Vijay Angelo
Anthony Harrop
Colin Johnson
Hirander Misra
Osman Rifaat



PLUS INDICES LIMITED
Document: TM01 - Ending appointment as Director
APPOINTMENT TERMINATED, DIRECTOR NEMONE WYNN-EVANS
Filed on: 30 Nov 2012



PLUS MARKETS LIMITED
Document: TM01 - Ending appointment as Director
APPOINTMENT TERMINATED, DIRECTOR CYRIL TH�RET
Filed on: 30 Nov 2012



Have a good weekend all.

[harry f] 30/11/2012 10:03

i think they will be asked, they have to be. like i said yesterday i believe 1) to 3) are realistically challengeable but if this is done in an open arena must impact 4) somewhere down the line.

there may be a lot at stake from our side, but a lot more from theirs.

don't care what anybody thinks thumper, if you have conviction in what your doing and believe it's genuine in it's intent and the right thing to do then carry on.

anna white was good but i dont think the telegraph or independent have the ability or the inclination to see the light, others do however.

you could say today is the last day of the old world, isn't it the 30th nov that the old directors finally leave office? wouldnt be surprised one bit to see a big buy trade go through later today.

[old thumper] 30/11/2012 09:51

Harry,

Good questions but the problem is who's going to ask them?

I hassled the PM, twice, about possible, "over dinner handshakes" that could backfire on him.

No doubt I've been taken as a nutter, but more people raising the same questions could do the job.

Or drop a line to the Telegraph, who was it? James Duckly?

PR is so powerful in Politics

[harry f] 30/11/2012 09:46

im just wondering why harrop is a cio and not a designated director? intruiging.

just wondering if dr colin is this guy?.... worked for icap back in 2011.

[harry f] 30/11/2012 09:19

thumper, im in agreement with your #4455.

if icap had come along for the company back in mid 2009 from memory it would have been burning £8m a yr and would have had £5m cash (pre amara), going concern status was unsure. Still the market valued it around 6p a share (£20m). would it be unreasonable to say a takeover offer would need to be £25m+? i dont think so.

then amari pump in £5m at 7.5p in sept 2009, going concern status is assured for the time being especially as the lse court case has gone and costs can fall. you'd expect the value to now be higher, market value £25-£30m, buyout price £40m?

then even in late 2011 my belief is that with going concern status you could allocate going off historical prices a value somewhere around one of the above figures. cash wasnt as much as it was in late 2009 but then again they arent burning it as quickly, the wider market (ftse for example) has improved, and the accumulated losses are higher enhancing it's value further.

but as we know the introduction of the new ceo back in 2010 coincided with the introduction of the indefatiguable bulletin board bears. at the forefront of their minds was a reducing cash balance and nobody could post anything on any bulletin board even mildly positive, it was bashed down. they wanted shareholders out.... "invest in this, invest in that, forget plus, it's going to die and shareholders will be wiped out".

my feelings have always been the same, the real value late 2011 of the group was very much the same as it was late 2009. it's hard to say how much was asset stripped into ts in early 2012.

now if action is taken aginst the 1) to 3) i mentioned what are the questions going to be? well there'll be a wide array including the following:

q: "did you achieve the best possible price for the sale of sx?"

a: "yes. we opened an fsp and it was offered to the open market, up to 30 companies took a look but all said no"

q: "but when you sold ts after the undiclosed arrangement with icap was made this was not offered to the open market"

a: "well we tried to sell ts on the open market before but nobody was interested"

q: "that may have been the case at the time of the fsp but ts appeared at that stage to be of minimal value, and this would be greatly enhanced with the icap contract arrangement"

a: "yes..... (some waffle follows)"

q: "so why didnt you reopen the fsp for ts to achieve best market value for something which clearly was fundamentally different in all but name to the ts you tried to sell before. furthermore why did you feel it wasn't in shareholder interests for the icap contract value with ts to be disclosed?"

a: "(some excuse)"

q: "to a layman it would appear that there was never any intent to achieve best market price for ts once the icap arrangement was made"

a: "......" (i personally don't know what they could say here!)

q: "so going off the historical facts that ts was clearly not sold at best price to the wider market, why would anyone believe sx was too?"

a: "......" (again i personally don't know what they could say here!)


.....you can see how this is a big problem, but then there's another 20+ arguments, some even worse than this; a few far worse.

[harry f] 30/11/2012 08:23

pjw. good find, i hadnt seen that.

was previously based in finchley.

there was another similar thing yesterday i was looking at, can't remember the name now, based in london.

what's good is it shows the leadtime to get onto the speakers list for events of this type which looks around 3-4 months as this event is in february.

why then when they spoke at the conference in sep 2009 on behalf of ts did they only setup ts a fortnight before?

"7 September 2011

PLUS Markets Group plc (the "Group") today announces the establishment of PLUS
Trading Solutions Ltd ("PLUS-TS"),........."

[pjw1956] 30/11/2012 07:44

Hirander Misra
Senior Strategic Advisor
Delhi Stock Exchange

"Will M&A be replaced with limited stakes via exchange privatisation?"




Mr Tony Harrop
CIO
Global Markets Exchange Group

Current Directors Appointed
Dr Colin Ian Johnston 17-08-2012
Mr Osman Cherif Rifaat 20-08-2012



Dr Colin Johnston

[old thumper] 30/11/2012 05:03

The Polemos web site is still being developed, have a look.



Was this extract correct? I can't remember.

"ICAP reimbursed the Company with GBP150,000 of the costs of the SX Disposal."

[old thumper] 30/11/2012 04:34

Harry,

I still think the PM connection to a old Tory Minister (Spencer) is a powerful link. The slightest smell of bad press will start the phones ringing. I could still see a small press article something like this "Due to a accounting error Icap will pay £xm to Plus markets in full settlement of the case" The usual dribble when someone's be caught out.

Press takes it well, the PM saves his skin and we have the money to carry on with the new job to be done. End of story.

[squirrel888] 29/11/2012 21:01

Evening Harry,

I have just noticed that the BB for PMK over on iii has ceased. No record of it and I assume no historical record of it.

No one has bothered to set up a new BB for PLMO over there.

ADVFN seem to be streets ahead with user friendly facilities.

Onward and upward.

[harry f] 29/11/2012 17:37

thanks pjw. i do like it how history is reported, i find it amusing.

ive been thinking and you know my previous thoughts on the whole shennanigans, but im not sure i had it right. i don't know if "right" is the word to use, perhaps a more concise description is "complete".

as i see things there are 4 main items of contention/ dispute:
1) the conduct of the non exec's.
2) the exec director conduct and payoffs.
3) the sale of ts to forum.
4) the sale of sx to icap.

as you know the directors in place at the moment have told us they are looking at the first 3 of these.

now my previous assumption was generally as follows; as you go down the list things become more difficult to establish (in our favour) however the potential gains increase.... you could say the harder the fight the bigger the prize.

there are 2 extra "variables" to bear in mind however in my opinion, one being a "threat" and the other and "opportunity"

the threat is that we have do not have sufficient funds to challenge what we want to challenge (or is deemed worthwhile challenging) at the current time. whilst an issue this is not an insurmountable problem and there are ways around this. subject to a firm rationale i can see funds being available.

the opportunity arises i believe due to the fact that none of the 4) mentioned above want any type of court action, this in my opinion is dangerous on a number of levels. one could say it's also dangerous for us because it depletes cash resources which are already low, but for them it's potentially a totally different kettle of fish.

now this opportunity creates leverage.

1) and 2) above, even combined i don't believe will appease the "powers that be".... even if they handed back the money and the non execs apologised on condition of no formal action being taken i don't believe it's enough. Amara who invested £5m, now reduced to £140k arent going to be happy walking away with another £50k.

moving onto 3), things become a bit more intangible. the obvious first argument is the claim that the directors were acting in shareholders interests by selling ts, with the natural response if they were then shareholders would have been happy with the sale. their not. then there's the fact the contract with icap was not disclosed pre sale and other irregularities, etc. even an upward revision to this contractual amount (payable to shareholders) again i don't think is enough.

now one would be right to say that it doesn't matter what monetary value appeases the big boys, it's what can realistically be challenged what matters, i agree. from what i can see all of the above, i.e 1) to 3) are realistically challengeable imo, after all the new directors must think so as they have told us they are looking at them back in september.

now for 4) this i thought was perhaps an insurmountable hurdle but now im looking at it differently.

first of all the shareholders had no choice on the sale of ts, it was an "executive decision". i feel personally that the sale of sx was essentially the same and the fact your giving somebody a choice doesn't necessarily imply they have one. major shareholders had to agree to the sale of sx, my take on events was this was asked under significant duress.

allied to this is the null hypothesis(), in that if the sale of ts was irregular then is it unreasonable to assume the sale of sx is too? i dont think it is, for a number of reasons.

now if anything in challenging 1) to 3) occurs which formally puts into question the vailidity of 4), (the sale of sx) then icap have a big problem. they have an rie that would be £4m to apply for but they couldnt get one so you could say it's worth far more. then there's the tax losses of £8m which i expect will be usable at some stage, then the listed company value for nothing more than market presence alone, and finally the future revenue streams the rie allows them to develop. it only takes say a £2m annual revenue stream from derivatives and presence to markedly increase the value of what is now isdx.

what's this worth over the next 10 years? i suppose part of it all depends on successful development but "3 figure" millions is not unrealistic imo.

whats it's value already? £4m+ £8m + extra £12m extra capitalisation + presence = £24m+

icap can't afford any scrutiny over the rie purchase, there is simply too much at stake. it if went all the way, amara came in and funded this an extra £2m? and it all went through the courts formally i believe there may be a risk of losing the rie licence.

but then i return to earlier comments, will 1) to 3) appease? i don't think so.

so is the solution icap agreeing an £Xm out of court with us to make it all go away and keep it out of the courts? subject to challenge, from icap's side i think it's the best strategy. from our side it may be different, it all depends on a personal feeling of "justice".

the only issue may be something duck mentioned on iii a while back and thats does the liability for the decisions rest on the company or the individual directors? i don't know.

have a good weekend.

[pjw1956] 29/11/2012 14:40

"In London, the failure of Plus Markets Group led to a fire sale of its assets-the technology solutions arm was bought by former Chi-X COO Hirander Misra, while the exchange business was snapped up by Icap, leaving investors owed money to pick over the remains."

Nice version
From
29 Oct 2012 - Waters Technology
Mergers and Inquisitions

(Update) Fire sale, Forum TS

Careers

Forum is an entrepreneurial workplace where individuals can thrive in a fast-paced, challenging domain and shape their own career with a culture of technical excellence and knowledge sharing. Forum are currently looking to increase their operational and development team in in the following roles:

Technical Operations Support x 2 - Mumbai - If you have unix / PostgreSQL / FIX / networking / servicedesk experience.

Java Developer - Mumbai - if you have server side skills with a proven record of delivery particularly in the trading technology arena.

Project Manager / Business Analyst - Mumbai - formal approach and ability to be client facing with a proven record of delivery particularly in the trading technology arena.

[daytraders] 29/11/2012 11:03

yeh i would have, but im not the owner of this thread so cant, sorry.