Phoenix Share Discussion Threads

[lauders] 28/5/2018 08:07

Oops! Apologies jonwig.... Not sure how I missed them but I managed to obviously skip them somehow. You never know, it may be in the prospectus, and if not the company should be able to answer if an e-mail is sent to the appropriate place surely? Depends how good PHNX are at investor relations. I haven't tried contacting them so far so have no idea!

[jonwig] 28/5/2018 07:21

@ Lauders - your posts re the M&S BPA were not remarked on because this had already been discussed in posts #2712 to #2715.

I'm still in the dark about how much money has been paid by whom to whom for this transaction. According to some other articles, the M&S scheme has £10bn of liabilities, and it has now insured about £0.9bn with Aviva and £0.5bn with Phoenix.

Logically, as has already been pointed out, the M&S scheme should pay a premium to the two insurers, but I can't find any figure for what that might be.

I doubt it will be in tomorrow's prospectus!

[lauders] 23/5/2018 13:35

Guess this wasn't worth an RNS:

17 May 2018

Phoenix completes £470 million bulk annuity with the Marks and Spencer Pension Scheme

[fenners66] 22/5/2018 09:49

Daniella Westbrook.....

[hvs] 22/5/2018 08:52

Eh ??? Whats a munter ????

We shall see this much higher by the end of the year.

[my retirement fund] 21/5/2018 18:50

Most of the munters who didn't wanna take part in the fund raising have cleared off I guess so theres no stale bulls and grumpy beard left. In english please?

[hvs] 21/5/2018 12:32

Yet another purchase from M+S

Justin Grainger, head of bulk purchase annuities at Phoenix, said: "We announced our intention to enter this market in 2017 as it offers an additional and complementary source of growth for Phoenix. We look forward to building our relationship further with Marks & Spencer and helping protect the security of their members' benefits."

[hvs] 21/5/2018 11:46

Nice to see.

Enjoy !!!!

[fenners66] 21/5/2018 11:34

Just gone vertical - not complaining - but why

[speedsgh] 18/5/2018 09:06

Interesting article on the global life insurance industry with contribution by Phoenix CEO, Clive Bannister...

The life-insurance industry is in need of new vigour -

[jonwig] 18/5/2018 08:05

@ ianood - yes, that's the logic. Thanks for confirming. Wasn't worth an RNS, then!

[ianood] 18/5/2018 07:57

jonwig - as a rule of thumb anything that de-risks the scheme is done at a cost to the scheme. In this case, I believe that put simply, PHNX are being paid for assuming the scheme's payment v mortality risk after an agreed age.

[jonwig] 18/5/2018 06:54

@ yupa, jeff - thanks for those links.

Being a bit ignorant of how a BPA works, I've found this as maybe the clearest explanation:



But who is paying the £470m to whom? Logically it seems to me that M&S is de-risking its pension scheme and should be paying Phoenix the premium. Presumably this is big enough to warrant an RNS, this morning?

[lord gnome] 13/5/2018 11:27

Indeed hvs. London can be a very lonely planet.

[hvs] 13/5/2018 10:07

Very good idea. They should bring it to London.

[lauders] 11/5/2018 12:16

Nice idea for the elderly. Hope it benefits many of them in Wythall:

Current figures suggest there are 10.8 million over 65’s in the UK, 3.8 million of whom live alone. One million older people say they always, or often, feel lonely, and 17% see their family, friends or neighbours less than weekly. The ‘walking friends’ concept builds on the idea that establishing community programmes based around the simple act of going for a local walk with a companion could help to tackle loneliness. Phoenix Group’s corporate responsibility strategy is all about wellbeing, promoting the importance of physical, mental and financial matters. This new walking initiative touches on many of these points, by helping to reduce isolation in the local community, encouraging new friendships, increasing exercise and appreciating and discovering natural points of interest, thus helping to reduce the risk of depression and dementia. The project also involves Wythall Parish Council, the community dementia café and other local businesses to help promote the launch.

[jonwig] 10/5/2018 14:30

@ p49b - I reckon it's only a few percent of £959m so I doubt I would bother. In any case, I sense a bear growling in the woods.

[jonwig] 10/5/2018 11:35

Just to add to #2703: the PHNX RNS on 23 Feb was made when the share price was around 750p, so the calculation would have been (assuming 1:2) as follows:

Existing shs ... 393.26m @ 750p
RI shs ......... 196.63m @ 483p
Total .......... 589.89m @ 661p
SLA award ...... 147.38m @ 661p = £974m, which looks about right.

But, now that the PHNX share price has risen to around 795p, SLA are indeed getting their shares on the cheap!

If the PHNX share price had fallen in the interval, the opposite would have been the case. They could rectify the situation by accepting that they need to raise less that £950m or by reducing the cash consideration - I doubt either will happen!

[hvs] 10/5/2018 08:42

My thinking and I does not have a good brain says the issue price for the rights will be at least £ 6.50 and it could well be one for three.

Lets see what happens.

[jonwig] 10/5/2018 08:21

Hyden - thanks for your input. However, it's my understanding that the RI will raise £950m gross - ie. if 1:2 it will be at 483p, with ex-r price 686p. (It usually is that way, but the relevant RNS has nothing to say on the matter.) So the issue costs (your £50m) are borne from that gross sum.

In general, I'm pretty confident that if a share issue is made to some or all shareholders, each holder who is involved must get the same price terms. Your rationale appears, loosely, to suggest that SLA will get its shares after existing shareholders have forked out the issue and underwriting fees.

Anyway, all should be clearer with the circular - at least for those who plough through the whole thing!

[garycook] 10/5/2018 01:47

Hyden,Good work.Looking at your assumpions,seeing the 2016 RI price was 508p.Quite possibly on the money.But all will be confirmed around May 29/30.