Phoenix Copper Share Discussion Threads

[roysterboyster] 22/5/2024 14:20

...and that is just the Empire Open-pit mine which pays for the rest...

No wonder NIU have invested.

[sportbilly1976] 22/5/2024 14:15

Their LinkedIn post, and the press release attached also has the following:

"In May 2024, Phoenix released its inaugural reserve statement for the Empire Open-Pit Mine, reporting proven and probable reserves of 10.1 million tonnes containing 49,677 tonnes of copper, 104,000 ounces of gold, and 4,654,400 ounces of silver, amounting to a total of 66,467 copper equivalent tonnes. Whilst the company is making strong operational progress in multiple exploration projects, the reserves of Empire Open-Pit Mine alone shall assist the company in generating revenues of c. USD 550m and EBITDA of c. USD 250m over its expected mine life of c.8 years. "

[roysterboyster] 22/5/2024 14:10

The strategic partner NIU-Investments seems committed enough to the deal to be broadcasting it to the investment world through Linked-in. Please see the link here, just posted in the last hour or so.

hxxps://www.linkedin.com/posts/niu-invest_we-are-investing-80-million-in-the-2023-activity-7199011653558878208-Aa5O/

Bearing in mind their business model requires deal-making on an ongoing basis, this would be a stupid thing to advertise if the intention is to stuff PXC shareholders, as has been suggested by some (no names!).

I for one am sleeping easy in the knowledge this finance deal is done and the mine is being built and, more importantly, I own PXC shares!

Highly competent people are at the PXC helm and the short journey to production is one to just enjoy.

[rainyrain] 22/5/2024 06:13

Missed the dinghy more like

[paulhopeful] 22/5/2024 01:07

Transparent.. Clearly some have missed the Boat.

[kooba] 21/5/2024 22:36

From PXC listing particulars"ExGen to retain a 20% carried interest until the production of a bankable feasibility study - ExGen then participates or dilutes;"So that could be interesting I guess...without a BFS do ExGen just retain 20% and do not have to participate??https://phoenixcopperlimited.com/Company%20Presentation/2017_AdmissionDocument.pdfPage 74.

[kooba] 21/5/2024 19:34

"ExGen to be paid US $100,000 on each anniversary date of the earlier of the Phoenix IPO or March 31, 2017 (the "IPO Anniversary Payment") until the completion of a bankable feasibility study on the Empire Mine Project.""Phoenix to spend a minimum of US $500,000 on the Empire Mine Project every 12 months until completion of the bankable feasibility study."Without digging too deep a BFS is used in the agreement with ExGen on the original transaction. It seems a key trigger point in the agreement...and nothing to do with banking finance.Not sure I can be bothered looking at the full terms that trigger ExGen development contribution for their 20% ..if anyone knows or can provide link would appreciate.

[kooba] 21/5/2024 19:11

Good grief you guys..I own shares have done for a while I have stated it's not a massive position as it's a speculative counter ..I have a number of mining holdings. I have also stated I have not bought or sold any stock recently as at current levels the risk reward does not warrant so.Writing your own thoughts on my positions is amusing but fictitious. I have explained how I look at things and don't plan on wasting my time justifying to everyone who thinks they know whether I am short, no position or looking to buy...you are all wrong and grabbing at straws.IM , As to BFS ...that is what is required by our minority holder to avoid some small ongoing payments it appears ..as to whether it triggers other commitments under the sale contract I haven't established yet...you are confusing BFS with actual Bank lending . The BFS is a high benchmark of DD used in the industry and the investment community to derisk projects and enable clear investment decisions..simples.

[roysterboyster] 21/5/2024 18:50

Dear Kooba

Yes, my first post on this BB. You're welcome. Remember, it is not quantity but quality that matters. The arguments I have made make sense, of course.

I presume from your stance portrayed in the various posts you have made today that you are not holding any PXC shares anymore. Yet somehow you seem very interested in such a doomed situation...

Is your finger poised over the buy button by any chance? There would be no other reason for you to be posting here. If so negative, you would sell as it will only get worse and you would have gone away. The fact you have not means you are ready to buy the dip you are trying to create.

Everyone can see that.

Good evening all investors. It's transparent, is it not.

[investorman33] 21/5/2024 18:46

Kooba,

Bankers offering Traditional mining finance want :

1 A bankable feasibility study
2 Their lenders terms to be agreed - and I have yet to see any of these banks offering traditional bank mining finance without a hedging program to be agreed
3 There will be documentation which includes a detailed financial model (based upon BFS) and including a details of precisely how cash generated from sale of metals is used, and that primarily ensures the bank is repaid its loans as soon as possible.
4 etc

All these documents form the documentation needed to get banking finance - so the BFS and hedging are inseparable when it comes to banks offering traditional banking finance. You cannot get the finance without all these suite of documents

Its being a little obtuse not to accept that point.

Whereas with finance offered through issuing bonds or via a royalty company, there requirements and documentation do NOT typically include either a BFS or hedging



Re the principal behind the company providing the bond money, I said my internet searches could not find any CCURRENT court cases against him, and nor could I find he has actually been convicted of any crimes - that when you posted an article from 2022 saying lots of allegations against him (a lot seem to be from a short seller called Viceroy who may have their own axes to grind ?).

Please point me to articles showing :
1) Any convictions from a court that the Principal has - I could find none
2) Any current court proceedings against him - I could find none

Its a matter of English law that if a man is found not guilty he is therefore innocent of the charges brought against him,

Many thanks

[kaos3] 21/5/2024 17:32

small secret ... want to meet them ... they are at the Kitzbuhl downhill each winter most of the times. might go there myself with a new perspective.

[kaos3] 21/5/2024 17:24

as i clearly expressed my self - i am in for number 2 fully

as i think as you do - we should never trust the circumstantial evidence. what we should trust is legal system, commitment, putting money where the words are, human goodnes and ethics. and profit motivation.

we should also be aware that all those articles must be read from a sober distance.

i am just thrilled about all this.never expected it to be involved first hand with the austrian magic boys.

i have been following huge success of rene benko for years if not decades now and now i will be taking similar ride myself - participating in pxc huge story. billion. and green.

wow - life is full of surprises

[kooba] 21/5/2024 17:13

I see thats your first post ..i can see why. Good luck out there.

[roysterboyster] 21/5/2024 16:57

Kaos and Kooba

The range of circumstantial evidence you provide is fascinating. There are actually only 2 possibilities:

1. This investor has put their costs, time, effort and opportunity cost to enter into a deal with PXC to somehow engineer the demise of the company. But, that would clearly be daft because:
(a) they will have several million shares in said company and
(b) they have purchased copper bonds from said company

Both (a)and (b) would be worthless in the event of the PXC failing. They will have spent more on the copper bonds than the market cap of PXC and then some. I am fairly sure the investor could work that out, or at least one of his henchmen.

2. They have identified a company where there is a solid path to copper production and they believe that is a good place to deploy their money for a multiple return.

I believe option 2 is far more likely and aligned with my expectations.

of course, those who believe in option 1 should sell their remaining stock as soon as the market opens. I for one will buy them!

[boonboon] 21/5/2024 16:35

Isn't a BFS required to trigger investment requirements from Exgen?

[kaos3] 21/5/2024 16:18

kooba - well thought and deep - he is a green investor helping to save our planet

[kooba] 21/5/2024 16:04

From many reports he is very experienced in debt management , litigation , bankruptcy and apparently shadow running businesses and enriching himself. Unfortunately skill sets that are not necessarily aligned to other stakeholders. Hopefully has turned over a new leaf and is just a super supportive and slightly green mining investor.

[kooba] 21/5/2024 16:00

I have done my own research and he has not been found innocent in the latest allegations which you seemed to have missed altogether ?? Certainly has not been found innocent of latest charges yet as you posted.Thanks for thoughts on a BFS..no where in there would be the requirement for hedging as you claimed..that might be a condition of the lender of course. But a BFS is also good for the company to have undertaken bullet proof planning in development and financing ..something not done here.The idea that the new investor being the primary lender and owning up to 25% of the equity has no say in the running of the company is quite amusing.

[kaos3] 21/5/2024 15:51

it makes a complete sense to me. he is not a bank and not very experienced in mining vibes it seems - so he did not ask for a pfs or bfs

[investorman33] 21/5/2024 15:47

Kooba,

Banks require a Bankable Feasibility Study - hence the name

Other suppliers of finance can set their own rules as to what they want to see - so its perfectly possible to find finance done as part of a royalty deal (increasingly common - I don't they really existed or were widespread 20 years ago) to finance a mine acquisition or supply capital to develop a mine and equally bonds (used in a wide variety of industries) will often not require a bankable study. What they will all want is an 'enhanced' business plan, or what is known in some industries as a feasibility study signed off by an experienced Competent Person incorporating maybe a dozen expert opinions on key parts of the FS (eg metallurgy, environmental, mine design, financials etc).

One of the reasons banks seem to like the Bankable feasibility study is they have a section in there describing in great detail the 'money waterfall' which ensures they are repaid very quickly and which creates a financial straitjacket for the mining company - and that ties in very closely with the hedging of all metals they require the mining company to sign up to, typically in today's environment the copper price the company must sell to the bank might be 3.80/lb or US$ 4/lb. That's the reason why I hate traditional mining finance - the hedging, fees, warrants and shares required plus cost of the BFS makes it very expensive finance. And all the major banks seem to have the same model which scalps the owners/shareholders of the mine

So I'm delighted PXC have found a bond investor - another alternative might have been a royalty house to avoid the need to go to a traditional high cost mining bank.

Of course DYOR, but from what I can find the bond investor has never been found guilty in a court of law anywhere so he's innocent until proven guilty. BTW most of the main banks HAVE been found guilty and had to pay MASIVE fines for various money laundering, failure to identify their customers sources of money (whether Russian oligachs or Africans defrauding national oil companies etc) fixing of LIBOR interest rates etc - so do you want to do business with businesses convicted of crimes ?!

Certainly a colourful character BUT he is not involved in PXC management he's just a finance supplier

[williamcooper104] 21/5/2024 14:27

Imagine if you are a secured creditor You start the project You then fail to fund and the unsecureds put into admin and you then credit bid the whole thing (Yes the company should have the right to sue you but if you credit bid the whole company then you'd buy that right back; or else if the failure to fund happens in an SPV and the loan is then transferred to another company the litigation equity is likely worthless) Either way you'd really think that given this isn't from an institutional funder a lot of thought had gone into this

[williamcooper104] 21/5/2024 14:23

Yep - looks that way Would be very naive if it's structured like that Understand that they couldn't get funding without dilution but would have hoped they'd at least protected themselves

[boonboon] 21/5/2024 14:20

It would be good to know for certain rather than presuming.As he gets the initial shares after the first $5million payment I don't know what recourse there would be if he doesn't pay all the money.

[williamcooper104] 21/5/2024 14:17

If the $80m is not fully subscribed for then presumably the funder doesn't get the 25% equity fee - or it gets cancelled With development funding you do care who your funder is as you are taking a credit risk on them having the money when called for