Phoenix Copper Share Discussion Threads

[investorman33] 16/5/2024 10:29

Kooba,

There may be more info before agm, but if not I will be at agm to see what other info I can glean.

Are you coming to agm to see what Ryan has to say on mine development and timescales ?

[rainyrain] 16/5/2024 10:28

Zb27. Ever heard of something called 'research' fella? Maybe give it a try some day!

[kooba] 16/5/2024 10:24

Investorman33"KoobaI've seen donald pond (as investor relations) say on a few occasions that 2nd hand equipment will be bought before pfs is published - and reason for placing 2 months ago was to buy 2nd hand equipment as well. so story has been consistent"I am aware of the fundraise and reason was to purchase specific plant which they announced was done and the forecast release of PFS end Q1begining Q2 was confirmed at the time.There has been no "Official" change in that expected timetable ..apart from it has been missed..as stated before communication through closed user groups on social media is not an acceptable way of giving information and guidance to your shareholders. If it were where is the economic analysis promised on the 24th April within a week or so ...how was this to be done when the CEO is still scouting for more plant??So less than 5 years to production..cool can really access the cost of the bond funding on that ...oh there is a bit of a problem as we will have lost the mine by then!

[investorman33] 16/5/2024 10:21

Kooba,

Lower risk as pxc now has 80m available to build mine (currently thought to be enough per rns), so any other lender is following on to deal with any unexpected over runs. cash to complete a project raised in say late 2025 (if needed - and atm that's hypothetical) will be regarded as low risk as by that time most of project built and any amount more required is known with greater precision. Hence lower risk

existing bond holder may put up more cash or 3rd party (with a 2nd charge). But all this is hypothetical atm, pxc saying its not needed !

[zb27] 16/5/2024 10:17

Most of you don't hold, so just give it a rest, find something more useful to do with your lives.

Most of you said BONDS will never happen. Well here we are.

Such constant doom and gloom, surely you must be paid posters why would you spend so much time on a company chat board when you clearly don't own a single share. Why waste time, I just don't get it, what a useless wasted life.

It's up over 100% in several weeks. I will go up 100% again over the next few weeks.

I did say il post again when in the 20s, now il post again when in the 30s (won't be long)

[kooba] 16/5/2024 10:15

"..lenders will see pxc as much lower risk with 80m bond in place so likely a queue to lend 5m/10m/20m more if ever required."Lenders normally like security..so if Empire is already pledged not sure it's that simple.

[investorman33] 16/5/2024 10:13

Kooba

I've seen donald pond (as investor relations) say on a few occasions that 2nd hand equipment will be bought before pfs is published - and reason for placing 2 months ago was to buy 2nd hand equipment as well. so story has been consistent

Project will be in production well before 5 years ! More precision beyond that I wait for the pfs, and anything said at agm, but clearly asap.

[investorman33] 16/5/2024 10:08

tim000

The RNS days the first couple of interest payments are held in escrow.

draw down of bonds goes into 2025 so obviously cash available until then.

RNS says 80m bond is enough cash into production and accounts says there is enough for drilling and other exploration.

so at present company projections says it has enough cash to get into production/revenue earning.

if you are looking to say what happens if more cash is needed - lenders will see pxc as much lower risk with 80m bond in place so likely a queue to lend 5m/10m/20m more if ever required. But that is a contingency on top of whatever contingency pxc has allowed for in the 80m. more info when pfs published

[klondykejohn] 16/5/2024 09:55

As the bond sale is now complete, I will once again ask the question about the 20% of Empire that is owned by EXgen.
Are they also included in the bonds or will they now lose that 20% and it reverts to PXC ownership.
The bond sale is for getting the mine into production. Will Exgen now stump up their $20m or have PXC worked together with EXgen to jointly acquire the bonds.
PXC is independent to EXgen, and it is my hope that this is a bond solely for PXC and not for EXgen which would make Exgen either stump up that 20% extra money or walk away.
That 20% is a massive portion of costs, and also profits and this ultimately should be benefitting PXC shareholders.
Perhaps DP will now confirm one way or the other about EXgen involvement in the bond agreements.

[kooba] 16/5/2024 09:53

"I've said before, the PFS will be released as soon as Ryan acquires the second hand gear. "I didn't know you or the company had said anything like that ...where is the rns??? and buying I presume further second hand gear should not be a reason for further delaying releasing key price sensitive information...that was clearly guided to be released before now. An economic analysis as you said would be released can easily have separate modelling dependent on cost of plant..surely not rocket science , the key modelling on production and cashflows would be marginally different though there would be a small reduction in upfront capex.I presume all the 960 pages have been shared in the DD process for getting the bonds to a conditional level yet shareholders are restricted from having any basis to look at the impact of the debt burden on their investment.When does the company expect to start production now it has the money..having looked through results and bond release there are zero clues..1 year or 5 years??? Realistic ballpark.

[rainyrain] 16/5/2024 09:53

OK. Personally, I have never come across a copper mine developer which has purchased plant equipment before releasing a pre feasibility study, but I'm here to learn!

What do the "experts" say, something like a 30% swing in accuracy between a PFS and DFS? Not to mention refinement and optimisation between studies.

All I've wanted to know for several years now is the processing route, metal recoveries, tonnage per annum and IRR. Guess it is coming "shortly" so that's handy! Cheers m8 !!

[tim000] 16/5/2024 09:52

Thanks investorman. I’m not a commercial banker by profession, so don’t know what covenants would be normal for this type of finance. Obviously any covenants that address the risk of default, such as late payment of interest or capital, are the ones of most interest. Small companies with no revenues and a single mine in development are risky affairs, no matter what PXC management say, and there have been several complete write-offs on the LSE in recent years, of which HZM today is just the latest. They too told investors wonderful stories of future cashflow. But the project turned out to be completely unmanageable.

[donald pond] 16/5/2024 09:48

Yes, PFS will be published when we have bought the key items we need. Then all will become clear.

[investorman33] 16/5/2024 09:41

Rainy rain

DYOR. PXC has said money from bonds will be used to buy equipment so that therre is no need in PFS to use new equipment prices with a 25% contingency ..... that will give a bigger npv and irr which investment analysts will use for years to come.

So pfs will come out 'shortly'

[rainyrain] 16/5/2024 09:39

So you're going down the ammonium thiosulphate route? Is that right? If so, will you release the results of all the metallurgical test work and the recovery rates? Cheers!

[goldrush] 16/5/2024 09:38

rainy Rain

As investormon says please read the Annual Report issued last night....permitting etc is in there...

[poppa wobbler] 16/5/2024 09:37

https://www.proactiveinvestors.co.uk/companies/news/1047714/phoenix-copper-raises-us-80m-in-bond-finance-as-stars-align-1047714.html

[donald pond] 16/5/2024 09:36

I've said before, the PFS will be released as soon as Ryan acquires the second hand gear. That will be at a big discount (50%+) to list price. If we don't own the gear when the PFS is published we need to price everything at list price plus 25% contingency. As we will only produce one PFS, let's make it accurate and reflect actual costs rather than hypothetical ones.The draft PFS is incredibly detailed. Every cost is included, down to bits of kit that cost a few dollars.

[investorman33] 16/5/2024 09:36

Tim000

The RNS has to include all the details the Nomad thinks are material in the bonds. Likewise the Auditors have similar obligations, although both may have slightly different views on material items. So suggest you read them both.

As a general comment these are bonds with a 10 year life, although both investor and pxc have rights for early redemption (eg 6 years)

Like all bonds the money can be used for any purpose to progress the company, unless a covenant states otherwise (no covenant in rns or accounts, means no restrictions on use other than divis etc)

Interest calculation spelt out (see an earlier post by someone showing interest at different copper prices - eg 12% at $6/lb copper - copper prices currently circa $5/lb are at an all time high)

Draw down spelt out in rns etc

IMO the bond has a pretty simple structure and minimum covenants - what covenants were you concerned about.

[rainyrain] 16/5/2024 09:33

All the risks overcome? All? This is ramping up a mine bruv, something I've actually researched, and your comment is hogwash on steroids fella!

Plus the fact it's a polymetallic scarn with a long history of metallurgical test work,and a recent history of metallurgical test work that hasn't been released yet as far as I'm aware! All imho and DYOR!

[investorman33] 16/5/2024 09:28

rainy rain

Ryan's statement in Annual Report suggests most of your comments already taken into account and a huge amount of work already completed by mining experts to say all the risks overcome.

[kooba] 16/5/2024 09:26

DP you said the PFS was 99.5% complete in Jan...you said there would be an economic analysis released in a week or so with reserve report on 24th April. So not sure you should be mocking folks who require firm economic projections and perish the thought some detail on how and when this project can get to production and start to generate cashflow to support the ever growing debt burden.Saying it's all done but we ain't sharing , allowing there to be in sufficient information for people to make any reasoned investment decision is not helpful...as always.

[rainyrain] 16/5/2024 09:24

Thanks foe the response DP. To me, it sounds more like a DFS than a PFS! Do you anticipate a full feasibility, or will you go into detailed engineering and construction on the back of this PFS? Balls of steel bruv Imho LOL!

[waterloo01] 16/5/2024 09:22

donald pond16 May '24 - 09:20 - 11155 of 11155
0 0 0
And no arrangement fee. That is usually 5% minimum on AIM.


Really....what about the 25% of the company as the fee!!!