Patisserie Share Discussion Threads

[hpcg] 12/10/2018 15:11

I lost a small amount in Aero Inventory, during my early and naive days. Lots of warning from short sellers I remember. That and Rok, another zero, had literally paid a dividend just before going belly up. I was thinking about this earlier, but access to a Dun and Bradstreet account would have been useful in this case given supplier actions.

[tomboyb] 12/10/2018 14:28

The more I read the more difficult it seems for survival -

but u never know -

[grahamite2] 12/10/2018 14:23

The numbers are not stacking up well here, hmmm.

The first words of the first post on this thread, over 4 years ago. Prophetic or what?

[lefrene] 12/10/2018 14:23

Thank you again sikhthetech, how could a Board not be aware of these winding up petitions? :-

"They raise questions over the board’s awareness of the petitions, the company’s handling of payments owed to suppliers and the potential financial strains under which Patisserie Holdings has been operating. It also raises questions about whether investors were informed of them."

[sikhthetech] 12/10/2018 14:17

Lefrene,

you maybe right...it might not be the only filing

according to The Times, there are 3 other winding up petitions against PV subsidiaries, one dating back to 2010!!!


"The subsidiaries Patisserie Valerie Holdings and Stonebeach have faced three other winding-up petitions in the High Court, as well as the one filed by HM Revenue & Customs last month, according to court filings. They include a petition from HMRC, filed in November 2010, that remains “open”, the filings show."

[lefrene] 12/10/2018 14:14

Grant Thornton should have known the figures were too good to be true for this type of operation and the institutional investors should have known that too if they had conducted some due diligence before placing their bets with other peoples money. This looks like a straight forward momentum game, keep expanding to make it look as if you are really growing, delay paying all comers as long as possible, hope you can sell the thing on to another player before the wheels come off. Well the wheels have come off, before a bigger mug could be found, the shareholders and suppliers have all been mugged. I wonder if Mr Johnson has thought of going into banking?

[snoopy12] 12/10/2018 14:03

Luke will not put anything more. Why would he try to patch up a sinking ship,when he has already cashed in a lot of the shares at the peak .The remaining shares are worthless and he will move on to something else. If I was him why would I keep hold of a tarnished brand.

[thegreatgeraldo] 12/10/2018 13:59

Interesting point about the HMRC action is that it was filed 15 Sept & advertised on 5 Oct.... in between, somebody at the company (should have) received notice of the action & would appear to have done nothing with it....

[steptoes yard] 12/10/2018 13:57

How often did they change auditors?

[danny baker] 12/10/2018 13:57

hpcg, LJ can't have pledged any of his CAKE holding as under AIM rules that would count as dealing and would need to be announced to the market. By the way some people do have millions in a current account - just waiting for that opportunity.

[essentialinvestor] 12/10/2018 13:56

Just a little sector context, Greggs have a net margin of approx 5.8%.
GRG is value end, however very efficiently run.
CAKE reported net margin was over 15%.

[lefrene] 12/10/2018 13:55

Thank you sikhthetech, perhaps I'm wide of the mark, but that might only be the first demand from HMRC? No doubt the full story will come out in due course.

[sikhthetech] 12/10/2018 13:48

The unpaid tax bill was only £1.14m, which isn't a huge amount given the size of the company...



"Adding to the crisis, the British tax authority HM Revenue & Customs is understood to have since filed court proceedings to wind-up the chain. Patisserie Valerie reportedly owes a tax bill of £1.14 million."

[hpcg] 12/10/2018 13:44

MrTen liquidity is not necessarily direct cash, it can also be arrangements that allow them to get a line of cash should they need it; no one has millions in a current account. In other words some of their assets are perfectly acceptable collateral. So should person X really be worth £200 million then it should be as straight forward for them to get £10 million on tick as it is for someone worth £1 million to get £50000. I think we'd all agree the latter is trivial. The business of banks is lending money for money, it's what they like to do. Who knows, LJ may have pledged part of his CAKE holding and thus has greater concerns than just the loss he's going to make on the equity. I'm not saying he has done that, nor indeed do I have a problem with it, it's quite conventional, but he either doesn't have liquidity or he doesn't want to have liquidity.

[hvs] 12/10/2018 13:44

Simples really, there was NO PROFIT

[lefrene] 12/10/2018 13:43

This is such a simple type of business that there is no room for fiddling money against the likes of a large complex contract for such as building a warship. The fiddle here will be unpaid VAT and unpaid PAYE and NI, because that's where such a large portion of cash flow disappears to when running a business strictly honestly. But at the same time those taxes can be underpaid for a long time before it comes home to roost.

[hvs] 12/10/2018 13:30

This BUST good and proper.

May help the fight against OBESITY not forgetting the size of the PIZZA . Lol!!!! next they will say you taking in too much air , dont breath so much, make your nose smaller.

[cockneytrader] 12/10/2018 13:28

SFO: Hello, is that yellow pages.
Yellow pages: Yes, How may we help?
SFO: we need an expert in holes, great big gaping holes.
Yellow pages: you can try under G for Gynaecologist. Thank you

[panic investor] 12/10/2018 13:28

Any money they had lots of bricks and mortar with no mortgage though - just in case :-)