Partnership Share Discussion Threads

[scrapheap] 26/3/2014 07:28

What's so clever is the this new flexibility makes people in 40s and 50s look more favourably on pension savings and thus likely to contribute more.

However when people come to retire their risk tolerance and/or capacity for loss has often shrunk I find - so many people say I used to be higher risk taking but now I don't want to be... people's attitudes to risk change and at retirement, normally it's lower than when they were working 10 years before.

Shares ISA's with their open investment term (no retirement age on them) often become the vehicle for capital at risk investments at that point.

That's why a lot of people will still buy some form of annuity - more fixed term flexible drawdown ones but still a decent number of lifetime ones too.

[scrapheap] 26/3/2014 07:21

I'm an IFA, client meeting last night - discussed options, new flexibility, what the lump sum could be if drawn out tax efficiently?

Outcome?

Still want some form of annuity as got enough cash, indeed have an IHT issue - by converting this in to an income stream for life that reduces their potential estate too and primarily want that certainty of income from this part of their wealth... pot size is £100k plus...

[sh0wme] 26/3/2014 04:56

AN ANNUITY MAY STILL BE BEST

At the moment around 400,000 savers a year take out an income for life, or annuity. When the pensions shake-up comes into force from April 2015, as few as 40,000 a year might be taken out.

Money Mail has campaigned to stop the annuities rip-off. But that doesn't mean taking an annuity isn't right for some people, so don't rule them out until you have explored all options. Payouts for these kind of policies are near rock-bottom. But an annuity is an insurance - and taking your money in cash won't necessarily provide the kind of guarantees they give.

Many retirees do not feel comfortable making their nest eggs stretch a lifetime. For those who expect to enjoy good health long into their old age, annuities might prove excellent value for money. And you don't need to move all your money into one - you could take half your pot as an annuity, to give you the guaranteed income you need, and the rest in cash to do with as you please.

Taken from article in today's Daily Mail

[actybod] 25/3/2014 23:41

Believe the average pension pot is nearer 30k

[hjs] 25/3/2014 23:25

Interesting article in today's evening standard. It appears market has got it wrong. Watch the next 3 months until Osborne delivers his annual mansion speech.

IMHO the market has got it wrong and Osborne has made a mess of this budget change. I think the rich and the super rich have complained that they are suffering because the annuity rates are low and Osborne took the opportunity to oblige and make this change. This is a political move. I read somewhere that the average pension pot in UK is £20k and a big proportion of pension pots would fall under the working class people (I guess something like +75%). IMO the current govt is looking after the rich and by taking this step their obligations to protect the working class is removed. He has tried to kill 2 birds with one stone.
Think about it what would you do with the average pension pot of 20k? To most people a 100% lump sum would look attractive but what would that sum buy? A car and his pension gets wiped off! Is this what Osborne wants to achieve? He has his own motives behind this change.

I think this is a very bad and dangerous move by this govt. If the pensioner blows up his lump sum pot as soon as he/she retires, who will take care of him/her? Taxpayers? The more one looks into it, you understand the motives of this budget change.

[scrapheap] 25/3/2014 17:35

then again maybe it is a hedge fund but which strategy is the reason for investing in PA????

[scrapheap] 25/3/2014 17:30

OK - I like the look of them, don't appear to be a hedge fund but a value investor... Encouraging then if so...

This is bang on as to why they might have bought in

"Valuation alone is not a sufficient pre-cursor to investment; each investment must have a clear investment thesis that is differentiated from the market view."

[scrapheap] 25/3/2014 17:25

Is this new shareholder RNS good news or not - as via a SWAP, not sure.

Who are Lancaster Investment Mgt... time for a google!!

[tsmith2] 25/3/2014 16:38

Interesting finish..

[tsmith2] 25/3/2014 16:00

Hopefully base building..

[oldtown] 25/3/2014 14:14

That tiny bounce seems to have somewhat fizzled out already, no real buying at the mo to squeeze it up.

[scrapheap] 25/3/2014 13:12

'A huge market overreaction': Partnership hits back over Budget pensions overhaul

Partnership managing director of retirement Andrew Megson says the City "got it wrong" after the insurer's share price plummeted over 50 per cent on the back of radical pension reforms announced during the Budget.

...

Do we think the City have got it wrong? Absolutely and we are having conversations with analysts over the next few days. Clearly this came out of the blue and it was a shock to everyone, including the market.

"It will take some time to right that but our fundamental business is sound and we will just carry on."

[oldtown] 25/3/2014 11:16

Last week the share went into Auction mid morning the day after the major fall and someone put 800k on the Offer at 128 momentarily, then it was removed.
Will be interesting to see if we can get to 128 to see if that stock has now gone.

[sh0wme] 25/3/2014 11:11

About time. So oversold in the first place. Gla

[oldtown] 25/3/2014 11:08

Selling orders completed? no constant AT sell bot attack today unlike everyday since the news.
Looking good for an initial short term bounce into mid 30's.

[dasv] 25/3/2014 09:32

hmmm - re: 212 how were analysts supposed to predict the about-face in legislation and it's associated impact on annuity sales?

Having said that, this article claims that legislative risk is underplayed by companies and analysts who are fixated on political risk.

One would expect boards from both companies to have a plan for the removal of this legislation (compulsory annuities). Particularly as in many other developed countries annuity purchases are not compulsory.

Indeed the diversified insurers announced that they had planned for this outcome.

In the coming months we shall see if PA and JRG have prepared for this adequately or not.


"
Risk factors" in companies' share-listing documents are a bit like "may contain nuts" labels on food products – worthless to allergy-prone investors until their shares go into anaphylactic shock, at which point the company can say: "You can't say we didn't warn you". But even so, it is significant that the political risk sections in the 2013 prospectuses of Partnership Assurance and Just Retirement – the two British annuity companies worst hit by last week's Budget shockwave – consisted of virtually identical cut-and-paste legalese. The assumption was that the main threats to their business would be regulatory and incremental, not legislative and far-reaching."

[actybod] 25/3/2014 08:38

Agree bozzy - the utility value for most folk means take cash now and worry about things later. For those with little financial literacy that's the reality. Why do most take up the 25% tax free cash? It's supposed to be saving for the whole of your retirement not just when you reach NRD.

[bozzy_s] 24/3/2014 23:22

Agree with 209. Too early, and given the analysts got this monumentally wrong, why take any notice of their updated price targets?

They can't just rewrite history! Barclays predicted 366p and PA. are now 119p!!

If I made such an enormous error I'd probably shut my mouth, not try to move the goalposts.

Just to get this 100% clear, are analysts ranked/judged/rewarded based on how accurate their target prices are after a set period of time? Or is there no recourse for p*ss poor predictions? Can they just keep changing their target price to something closer to the existing actual price?

Apologies for being off-topic

[sg1972] 24/3/2014 22:18

Thanks guys for that

[hawkhybrid] 24/3/2014 22:02

deutsche bank ratings:

pa. hold target price 325 no change.

jrg hold target price 178 down from previous 250.

maybe a little inconsistant to be reducing the target price of one
and not the other?

HH

[actybod] 24/3/2014 21:32

Probably a bit early for analysts ratings - need the dust to settle

[sh0wme] 24/3/2014 20:35

Other equities research analysts have also recently issued reports about the stock. Analysts at Barclays downgraded shares of Partnership Assurance Group PLC to an "underweight" rating in a research note on Thursday. They now have a GBX 125 ($2.08) price target on the stock, down previously from GBX 366 ($6.09). Separately, analysts at Nomura reiterated a "buy" rating on shares of Partnership Assurance Group PLC in a research note on Thursday. Finally, analysts at Deutsche Bank reiterated a "hold" rating on shares of Partnership Assurance Group PLC in a research note on Thursday. They now have a GBX 325 ($5.41) price target on the stock. One analyst has rated the stock with a sell rating, two have assigned a hold rating and three have issued a buy rating to the company's stock. Partnership Assurance Group PLC presently has an average rating of "Hold" and an average target price of GBX 285.20 ($4.74)

[sg1972] 24/3/2014 20:13

Does anyone on here know the new broker targets for pa? I presume price targets below current levels?

[it_trader] 24/3/2014 18:23

Yes but loverat it's about having the 'borrow' of that tax relief that you can compound gains on throughout your investing career. So if you are a good investor and doing it a long time it is a big deal