Palace Capital Share Discussion Threads

[konradpuss] 24/4/2023 17:09

baner, I only wish Sinclair well for a long and happy retirement!

[alders15] 22/4/2023 06:33

I have held shares since the early days. Sinclair drew no salary at the beginning in 2010, drew a small one in 2011 and waited until they did the very profitable Quintain deal in 2013 before there was anything meaningful. At that time he put in a quarter of a million pounds of his own money and then further monies when they acquired PIH in 2014. If you look at the records he also bought further shares in the open market.

Sorry, but someone has to defend him against these inaccuracies, especially as the current Board have hardly any shares. On his leaving last June, the Investors Chronicle commented that he left the company in good shape. Why the criticism?

[nickrl] 21/4/2023 20:00

Sinclair never bought shares on the open market not that he needed to as he filled his boots every year with very generous share options but guess that was his prerogative as the founder of the company.

[konradpuss] 21/4/2023 18:17

Oh! and a very greedy one at that.

[konradpuss] 21/4/2023 18:15

poacher, I wonder what the opportunity cost has been of the 'Hudson Quarter' in respect of perhaps a smart 'industrial' trade or a 'PBSA' investment?

Plus development is extremely risky. O.K. they have passed the development risk.

Old Sinclair was and is a Dinosaur.

[alders15] 21/4/2023 13:54

How do you know he was going to buy more office buildings. My antennae at the time told me that they were building a cash pile to take advantage of distressed opportunities that were coming. Distress has arrived, so the opportunity has been missed. You refer to the strong cash flow. Who do you think created that in the first place. I have just had a look at what happened last April, when after the Trading Update was issued , the shares rose to 297p within a few days. Yes values have fallen but are you happy at the shares being at 214p? Only one member of the current Board has any shares and that it is only 15,000. Not an attractive proposition.

[baner] 21/4/2023 07:24

Sinclair was very negative for the company - wanted to use proceeds from York sales to invest in further Office buildings etc etc - all in order to allow him to continue to milk the company. Total admin costs were horrendous with a large portion ending up in Sinclairs own pocket. Rest assured the NEDs were ousted (”encouraged to leave”)as was Sinclair and Starr. With strong cash flow, lower central costs and proceeds from continued sales of properties Palace will be in an excellent position to further increase its NAV by buying back shares in the market. The new BOD clearly is looking after the best interest of all shareholders. Sacking Sinclair was the best thing that ever happened to shareholders.

[poacher45] 21/4/2023 07:23

He must have been blind when he saw Hudson Quarter then konradpuss.

[konradpuss] 20/4/2023 19:36

Alders, that was a different market.

Sinclair had no vision.

The clever money is generally made in special situations, Sinclair was a generalist.

[alders15] 20/4/2023 17:53

I do not recall any announcement that they were forced out by other parties. As for the dividend cut soon after lockdown happened, this was no doubt a Board decision, of which Sinclair was only one person. In addition the Non-Execs were in the majority so maybe it was them. Finally as for the remuneration of Starr and Sinclair, this was set by the Remuneration Committee chaired by a Non-Exec.. The company reported £5m profit on the sale of the 14 buildings and nearly £4m on the sale of the apartments at York. Sorry on this performance I have no problem with what they were earning. Pay peanuts and you get monkeys if you get my drift.

[nickrl] 20/4/2023 11:53

@ALDERS if they were that good they wouldn't have been forced out by other parties. I was in here big time when Sinclair was running the show and had several email response from him but lost the faith when i saw how much him and Starr were taking out of it and were quite happy to cull shareholders divi during covid but not their own pay.

[alders15] 20/4/2023 10:41

nickrl- What do you mean by Sinclair fantasy land? Take a step back. When he left and Richard Starr soon after him, they had sold 14 buildings at 20% above book, sold 80 apartments at York allowing them to repay the bank and so accumulating £30m in cash. Sorry but this looks pretty clever and forward looking to me. They created the circumstances that has allowed the company to weather the economic storm and to be in great shape. The current Chairman did not arrive until January 2022. Credit where it is due please.

[poacher45] 20/4/2023 08:33

Also I forgot to add it will save £11000 on dividends which is more than the 6.28% loan interest saving.

[poacher45] 20/4/2023 07:55

nickri so you would rather save 6.28% on £160000 approx than buyback assets at least on a 50% discount. Also bearing in mind the cash flow coming in from the Hudson quarter. I expect the new directors to announce that with admin savings, directors inflated wages savings and property sales the future for Palace looks good.

[baner] 19/4/2023 20:03

thanks Conrad - i am not too worried - still expecting NAV at 300+, with very comfy gearing.

[konradpuss] 19/4/2023 18:30

'kit price' = building price.

[nickrl] 18/4/2023 08:56

Baner for sure the new team is repositioning them nicely and there's more to come from admin savings they've enacted to right size there needs to the small propco they are not the fantasy land that Sinclair inhabited. Anyhow id rather they were paying down the floating debt particularly the Nat West RCF which is at 6.28% currently as its linked to SONIA

[baner] 18/4/2023 08:20

What do u mean with ”kit price” ?

[konradpuss] 18/4/2023 08:12

It's the kit price that troubles me in respect of your thesis Baner.

[baner] 18/4/2023 07:36

More buy-backs in Palace - very good news for patient shareholders staying in. These buy-backs are a ”license to print money” as they buy £1 for say 65-70 pence. This will increase the pro forma NAV per share for the remaining shares - we may well end up at 400p, to be paid out to all remaining shareholders once the disposal program has been completed, if they can get hold of more substantial volumes at the prevailing market price. Palace is in a very good position to play this game, with low gearing and strong cash flow. and - a BOD who is clearly focussed on the best interest of all shareholders.

[baner] 04/4/2023 20:32

Thanks nickrl - but i believe you should assume the NAV to be 320p+/- and if so, the risk/reward is really very attractive in the PC shares at the prevailing price. However, we shall see who is right-ish. Under any circumstances, buying at 215p should more likely generate a good return, than not.

[nickrl] 04/4/2023 13:20

@baner the 40% premium on Industrials (MLI) was to last share price more like 4% to last NAV which being was a while back may have slipped further by now so not sure they are even paying a premia. To my mind MLI are selling out too easy but I suspect they will retain the managers to grow the business off the digital platform they have created is the attraction for recommending the deal.

Here i still reckon 280p NAV forecast tso here is upside but we will need to be patient as its going to take a while to unwind the portfolio.

[baner] 04/4/2023 12:35

Alders

pls read pdosullivans post, follwing yours............i think the premium on Industrials was just over 40%.........does this help you to understand better maybe? you must ask those selling out at 215p what reasons they have. maybe need for cash.

[pdosullivan] 04/4/2023 12:03

The Blackstone deal for Industrials REIT is good to see. Might we see PCA revive its plans to sell its assets in that space?