Orosur Mining Share Discussion Threads

[richgit] 22/7/2015 16:56

Elban.

"Paper Gold".

Who wants to touch Paper Gold when it is not inconceivable that they close down
the Comex with any contrived excuse and pay out $Default.

If you are buying Physical then you can sleep at night knowing that Paper Gold
can only dictate when they still have sufficient Physical to supply at the dictated price. They have faced that crisis before,yet nobody is going to lend their Gold out in any next crisis unless they are prepared to wave it goodbye


The whole Market and its me too commentators are talking about margined leveraged "Paper Gold" whilst China pretends it hasn`t got Thousands of Tonnes.

It is taking some time-yet after so many years the Physical is finally nearing
exhaustion in the Tonnes volumes. The West has been forced to sell Gold and hide
the fact that they know all their leased Gold is gone- and all to prop up faith in endlessly printed paper IOU`s that are only achieving recession.

The fear is understandable as the moment there is any percentage loss of faith in all the assetless paper- then it`s Curtains for the whole financial system as it stands.

Paper Gold can do nothing when they face not having sufficient Physical to supply Sovereign Buyers.

There cannot be much left in the West, so sleep at night with your real Gold
and far sounder than anyone that thinks they can still have their Gold in Fort Knox returned.

[augustusgloop] 22/7/2015 11:50

richgit,,

The only thing wrong with your formula,is you may have had your 100 Million
in a Cyprus Bank and then your IOU to me is worth zero,yet I leveraged your your IOU to me with someone else,who leveraged it again and so forth......

The chain is destroyed as 100 Million doesnt exist- so all we can then do is deny your 100 Million was in that Cyprus Bank for as long as possible and then
others dont panic and lose faith in the chain of value attached to the IOU`s.

-------------

That may be correct for the example between me and you.
But it does not apply for Goldman Sachs and JPM owing each other gold -- they have their own banks and so there is no risk of being taken down by the collapse of a 3rd party.

They could swap the outstanding contacts at any time - but instead they leave them sitting in their drawer -- just so mug-punters believe that they are each on the hook for thousands of tonnes of gold.

[richgit] 22/7/2015 11:26

I noted from several sources that the $2.7Billion equivalent Flash crash into Gold was all paper and not a single ounce of Physical,as Bullion dealers report
brisk buying of Physical.

That certainly stopped someone getting potentially slaughtered in the Comex Casino.

It could be a consideration for Orosur to just pile up production and not actually send it to Market for a while, though none of us can truly predict what is coming in September onwards.

One thing is certain- and that is the US economy will be confirmed (by non Fed
fantasy)as in real decline/back to recession, and that means we can write off
Euroland that is enforced by the US War freaks not to do Business with Russia,plus as Canada has confirmed.... no business from the US !!!,so where
are the Customers for the failing Barter scheme.

There may be a case that the $Dollar is once again merely the best of all worthless IOU`s, so whilst Gold will destroy the Yen & Euro it may still have a
battle with the $Dollar.

Will The Fed raise interest rates as the IMF begs them not to ?
The US can neither afford any interest rate increase or the strong $Dollar,so
they are fairly damned either way and that reality will come to the fore.

With the Greek debacle nowhere near settled and questions to remain as to who exactly will take the hit on the debts they will never pay,it is going to take
some amazing bluff to keep the Markets settled as the stock plunge teams surely
cannot buy them forever.

2016 could see some Bank go down and gawd knows how Putin is keeping His calm
against the Victoria Nuland clones pushing for conflict.

There is certainly going to be huge underlying demand for Physical Gold in 2016
not least from China,Russia etc etc,so we all wonder how long they keep the paper Gold Fraud in operation,as it is ALL about "Where is the Physical Gold!?


Finally- Are we just waiting for France to implode and then it`s time to bring
down the Curtain !?

[augustusgloop] 21/7/2015 02:30

richgit,

just to show that I am not a complete bear on gold.

I am in the process of selling a couple of properties - when the money comes in, I will be increasing my gold holding.

I will buy sovereigns - not paper gold and definitely not spreadbets.

Gold is now probably slightly below its long term inflation adjusted average - and so looks a reasonable place to put money away as a hedge against inflation and economic catastrophe.

[augustusgloop] 20/7/2015 11:29

richgit 20 Jul'15 - 10:43 - 13942 of 13942 0 0

I (tongue in cheek)stated many months ago- Why not just take the Comex down to 0 (zero)as that's about its true relevance in terms of any Physical Gold when leverage is beyond 100-1 and the derivatives to Armageddon 26-1 ?

------------------

They can't take the Comex down - for the simple reason -- that if there is a million tonnes of gold contracts listed as outstanding as the closing date approaches -- most of these outstanding contracts are owned by their issuers, or by other issuers.

Hence on contract day GS give JPM their outstanding JPM contracts and in return JPM give GS their outstanding GS contracts.

------------

This is what you don't seem to understand.

If I trade with you and we always pay each other in IOUs, which we clear every 3 months - then the following may apply:

I may have a £million in the bank
You may have a million in the bank.
I have issued £100m in IOUs to you
You have issued £100m in IOUs to me.

I can inform the market that I have £100m in IOUs outstanding -- and so mug-punters think that I am going bust.

you can inform the market that you have £100m in IOUs outstanding -- and so mug-punters think that you are going bust.

Mug-punters may thus bet on us going bust --- and we take the opposite side of that bet.

As long as you & I are not actually bust - we can just trade-off the IOUs at every closing. And make a large extra profit from the mug-punters.

[richgit] 18/7/2015 13:00

Elban.

Gold is a currency and the whole World knows that, and it is unprintable which is their immense fear when all other currencies can (and are being) printed to
a potential 0 value.

Gold is therefor going to outperform whichever of the 3 Major currencies is considered trash to dump...or at some point all 3.


This guy (below)truly knows what is going on, and We all have to consider our options and opinion as to whether any of the Derivative situations can unravel in calamity in the next couple of years.

For Greece to Grexit,Euroland has to have the ammunition to handle the credit defaults swaps.

For Myself, I can only presume that at some point IOU printing is going to accelerate in at least 1 of the Major Currencies, yet if trust of any IOU`s is lost then they cannot print any more at near 0.

What is the Fed going to do, as they realise the $ Dollar`s strength in a basket
of IOU`s with no assets, yet seen as the best of the worst, is going to totally sink their GDP ,wishful thinking, growth and plunge exports whilst they strive to contain Imports !? - which will lead to trade Wars (IMHO)

The big money is being offered 3 death trap vehicles to take a long journey in, yet 1 is considered to have slightly less bald tyres and some brake disc left, and still offers a questionable membership to a Breakdown Vehicle Club.

There have been several flash crashes in the $Dollar that they have saved by
the powers of manipulation- yet can they keep that up ?



You can travel which way you prefer,as is your/our choice,as none of us,and
doubtfully any of the Central Planners know what is going to happen until it has
happened. !.


......................


British economist Peter Warburton

“What we see at present is a battle between the central banks and the collapse of the financial system fought on two fronts. On one front, the central banks preside over the creation of additional liquidity for the financial system in order to hold back the tide of debt defaults that would otherwise occur.
On the other, they incite investment banks and other willing parties to bet against a rise in the prices of gold, oil, base metals, soft commodities or anything else that might be deemed an indicator of inherent value.
Their objective is to deprive the independent observer of any reliable benchmark against which to measure the eroding value, not only of the U.S. dollar, but of all fiat currencies. Equally, they seek to deny the investor the opportunity to hedge against the fragility of the financial system by switching into a freely traded market for non-financial assets.”

“It is important to recognize that the central banks have found the battle on the second front much easier to fight than the first. Last November I estimated the size of the gross stock of global debt instruments at $90 trillion for mid-2000. How much capital would it take to control the combined gold, oil, and commodity markets? Probably, no more than $200 billion, using derivatives. Moreover, it is not necessary for the central banks to fight the battle themselves, although central bank gold sales and gold leasing have certainly contributed to the cause.
Most of the world’s large investment banks have over-traded their capital [bases] so flagrantly that if the central banks were to lose the fight on the first front, then the stock of the investment banks would be worthless.
Because their fate is intertwined with that of the central banks, investment banks are willing participants in the battle against rising gold, oil, and commodity prices.”

“Central banks, and particularly the U.S. Federal Reserve, are deploying their heavy artillery in the battle against a systemic collapse. This has been their primary concern for at least seven years. Their immediate objectives are to prevent the private sector bond market from closing its doors to new or refinancing borrowers and to forestall a technical break in the Dow Jones Industrials. Keeping the bond markets open is absolutely vital at a time when corporate profitability is on the ropes. Keeping the equity index on an even keel is essential to protect the wealth of the household sector and to maintain the expectation of future gains. For as long as these objectives can be achieved, the value of the US dollar can also be stabilized in relation to other currencies, despite the extraordinary imbalances in external trade.”

[shar65] 18/7/2015 11:43

For those interested in mining companies check this Interview with Charles Gibson: Head of Mining at Edison Research

[augustusgloop] 18/7/2015 10:40

That's what the mug-punters think.

If there was a true price mismatch then either not all sellers could sell or not all buyers could buy.
There is no evidence for this.

The vermin in suits do actually change the POG to a small extent for short periods - increasing it when they are selling and decreasing it when they are buying.

There is a lot of lies spread about the paper gold market - mainly the number of outstanding contracts at any given time.

----------------

What truly amazes me about the mug-punters is that they insist that the POG is rigged and then bet against the guys doing the rigging.

Would you bet against the house in a game of dice when you thought that the dice were loaded?

The JPM & GS traders make millions each year from these mug-punters.

[kiwimonk] 18/7/2015 08:36

Wrong I'm afraid Gold as you say is not like any other commod, agree. For the price of gold to rise is not dictated at all by demand for ownership of actual physical au.The price is determined by a bunch of vermin in suits.

[richgit] 17/7/2015 19:56

This Summer time attack via No Gold Paper Gold is an opportunity,and for myself quite welcome as It offers some time for final preparations,just in case they
lose control of the Main Markets later this year.




Phoenix sum the Greek situation up in simple terms...............


The next steps are:



1) Germany’s parliament must issue a mandate giving Chancellor Angela Merkel the right to negotiate a new bailout deal with Greece.

2) Finland’s, the Netherland’s, Slovania’s, Estonia’s, and Austria’s Parliaments also must agree to let their Finance Ministers negotiate a new deal with Greece.
3) EU Finance Ministers must negotiate a new bailout deal with Greece.
4) Germany’s parliament must sign off on the new deal.
5) Greece must accept the deal.

Anyone who claims a deal is within sight is out of his or her mind. This process will take weeks if not months to complete… assuming it even occurs. Indeed, there are numerous issues any of which could derail the whole process.



The most important development is that both the IMF and the ECB have floated the idea of debt forgiveness. This is the first REAL solution that could reduce Greece’s debt load… but it is completely impractical in that it sets the stage for potential debt forgiveness deals for Spain, Italy and possibly even France down the road.



All of those countries will come knocking asking for help at some point. The fact is that their Debt to GDP levels have soared since the EU nearly collapsed in 2012.

Spain's Debt to GDP has risen from 69% to 98%. Italy's Debt to GDP has risen from 116% to 132%. France’s has risen from 85% to 95%.

This is why German political leaders such as Finance Minister, Wolfgang Schauble, are warming to the idea of a “Grexit”… because as painful as that might be, kicking out a problem country is a more appealing template for future negotiations with problem countries than debt forgiveness.


Remember, the entire Greek debt market is about €345 billion in size. So we’re not talking about a massive amount of collateral… though the turmoil this country has caused in the last three years gives a sense of the importance of the issue.

Spain has over $1.0 trillion in debt outstanding… and Italy has €2.6 trillion. These bonds are backstopping tens of trillions of Euros’ worth of derivatives trades. A haircut or debt forgiveness for them would trigger systemic failure in Europe.

EU banks as a whole are leveraged at 26-to-1. At these leverage levels, even a 4% drop in asset prices wipes out ALL of your capital. And any haircut of Greek, Spanish, Italian and French debt would be a lot more than 4%.

Remember, at the end of the day, it’s all about the big banks’ derivative exposure, NOTHING else. This is what has driven every Central Bank action since 2008. And it’s what will drive Europe’s future negotiations for a 3rd Greek Bailout.

The reality is that the issues that caused 2008 (excessive leverage, toxic derivatives) were not solved. If anything they have worsened. And today, most Central banks are sporting leverage ratios well above those that took Lehman Brothers down.

Another Crisis is coming. And it will feature entire countries going bust, not just a few banks

[richgit] 17/7/2015 16:12

As we are continually on the verge of some Financial crisis,it`s hard to know
what the hell is going on as all actions are smoke & mirrors.

What is China`s agenda ?,albeit with all in such a mess,we merely guess at what
games are going on and of course a necessity to try and hold the mirage together.

The Gold figure reported by China is in ultra massive contradiction to what has
disappeared into their vaults in just the last few months.

The one thing we know,is that if the Majors cannot produce at such a price
then something is going to give with some explosive force.

I would argue that the West had better look to protecting certain Gold producers
or they haven`t a chance of getting more Gold.

I find it alarming that the IMF is so publicly spelling out in no uncertain terms that We are all as stuffed as Greece and thus our printed IOU`s hang by the thinnest thread of sentiment & trust !?

When nothing makes any sense at all- it really is because it doesn`t and there is none.

Something is very very wrong,and Yellen must be having nightmares as She could
have a hand in lighting the fuse to Hell in just a couple of months.

[richgit] 16/7/2015 09:57

The Euroclowns have created a right bloody mess,and now all Eurolanders
are witnessing it.

Consider that the US is in far worse shape than Greece,and gawd knows what
would happen if $petrodollars return to the US en masse,and then how do they
print $Trillions more worthless $Dollars !?

If such a $Petrodollar situation raised its head,then I doubt some fractional
interest rate increase would entice investors to $Trillions of dumped Dollars
and if they went for a large increase its the Financial Death of the US and all of us.

How on earth will the US even face up to its looming Pension crisis,never mind
the $Trillions needed just to replace the decades old crumbling Power Grid,Roads,Bridges etc etc
War !?

I am sure many more now feel like hiding under the bed with their Gold & Silver,and I wonder if now they will simply be forced to run the Gold manipulation until they simply cannot- and close the Comex Casino in $Dollar default.

As they are doing that with everything else- I can only think that is their
now considered-no exit- only option.
If other players think that then they wont play the Comex game and then that leaves just the Vampires to await destruction when the Dam of Physical demand could break them within minutes.

Maybe to try and convince other players the Comex is still a playing ground Casino they will have to let Gold run up just to convince all the game is still on.

The farce will end at some point,and it just could be $1000 Comex Gold- then
the day after $1500 Physical with a closed Comex blamed on Cyberattacks (lol)

Welcome to China,where no matter what the temporary financial Market fiasco,
they have Whole Brand New empty Cities,all the up to date infrastructure anyone
in the West could only dream of..Gold,Oil,.... Money !!!

Just ask ourselves- why China wants all the Gold,and why the West pretends
Gold isn`t in demand.



IMHO

[wigwammer] 15/7/2015 23:27

Thanks richgit, you certainly have a view!

[richgit] 15/7/2015 10:23

PS>

Even the likes of Soros is scared of shorting the Markets,as the stock Plunge Teams of all the Central Planners can outgun anyone (until they cannot)

How would you or I dare to do what Soros wants to do, yet fears ?

I suppose if you can pick the moment when the Dam fatally breaks you cannot lose
yet they may somehow still keep this Mirage alive for quite some time yet,as
their desperation is "We cannot let these Markets fail".

They will fail- yet timing the event is for those with ears in the darkest corridors of the truly Evil Elite- where ours will never be.

[wigwammer] 15/7/2015 09:30

Richgit - didn't gold fall aggressively in 2008 when the meltdown hit? Even at the peak of grexit fear, wasn't gold falling? Won't the Chinese sell their gold when they panic and need usd? Aren't there better ways for people to protect themselves in modern markets, for example, by simply shorting the indices or buying short etf's?

[rhuvaal2] 06/7/2015 12:50

Thank you richgit ~ I know many have attempted to rubbish your posts but I for one do digest all these things and keep everything constantly in mind. An economist friend in Germany is gearing up to buy gold: she called it right last time: so, we travel forwards..... I am fully invested in a basket of PM stocks.

[rhuvaal2] 05/7/2015 11:04

richgit ~ your last comments appear resigned "to a fate". Are you saying = Fed' likely to print more dollars = inflation = realistic gold price? Feel that I and others are pleased to have found OMI (with the attributes you mention). My mindset is saying
the 'western world' is pricing regular stocks at stratospheric pe's and history
indicates a simple comment that euphoria doesn't last for ever, at least it never has done...,

edit: thanks for your intro to EUA... (and apols for being O/T)

[richgit] 04/7/2015 13:04

It looks like the immense collision between Fake Paper Gold and Physical is coming.

Economies are collapsing with debt all around us,so I just do not know what is coming yet assume at some point the Fed will fall back on printing more $Dollars
as they don`t know what else to do.

There is nothing more for me to say now,whilst We await events and then We can finally discuss how OMI will perform considering they are a producer, with virtually no debt, of what will be the ONLY unprintable Money/currency.





GLA until then.