Ormonde Mining Share Discussion Threads

[dolores123] 10/5/2015 10:11

Of Course the management fee is payable to Ormonde and not direct to the directors. I have never thought otherwise nor seen any one think that.

However it is simple for the directors to paid annual salaries and bonuses etc and the management fee to Ormonde helps to fund that for as long as the relationship lasts so the directors are sitting pretty whilst shareholders have come out badly at least at present.

They say a better outcome could not be obtained but as the final permitting was only obtained in November they appear to have given up after a very short period thereafter and that is what is so frustrating.

We have not just been diluted but the company has sold most of its major asset at considerable under value including the future income it will produce.

[admiral jellicoe] 09/5/2015 15:56

I've had a reply from Ormonde, fairly quickly too I may say. I asked about estimating cash flows so that investors could make a more informed decision.The. Email States a number of points, ie dividend payments and the management fee which is payable to Ormonde and not management alone.~~~~In relation to updating estimated cashflows, NPV's etc based on the Oaktree deal, it is not possible for us to do this at present as a result of being in an Offer Period (under the Irish Takeover Panel Rules) due to an Approach made to the Company by Almonty Industries. Reporting such numbers would be seen as profit forecasting which is unfortunately barred during an Offer Period. As we have stated in the deal announcement and in the EGM Circular, the financing package that we are presenting to shareholders, was the best deal available to the company. It does come with dilution (unavoidable for a junior when financing a mining project, and more so in todays present climate) however we have looked to mitigate against dilution subsequent to the deal, with a comprehensive funding package with a substantial cost overrun provision, a large equity component and resultant low gearing. We have also covered PLC running costs with an annual €1m management fee (paid to Ormonde as manager of the mine, not to Ormonde management, despite some confusion on some bulletin boards!) payable to Ormonde, plus the financing package comes with funds to repay the Oaktree loan Ormonde took earlier this year, again avoiding PLC level dilution. The debt package is also flexible, allowing for cash to be retained in the business (eg. to development an underground mine) and/or to be paid out in dividends (unusual for a dividend restriction not to be included as part of the debt terms). The financing also provides €3.2M to allow drilling and subsequent feasibility studies on a potential underground mine at Barruecopardo. This funding will allow these works to commence at an early stage, and if successful could add considerably to reserves, mine life and production rate at the project.

[admiral jellicoe] 07/5/2015 01:26

Regardless if the deal is good or bad, given the negative reaction to the announcement of the Oaktree deal, do posters on here think it will pass at the EGM?If the BOD want to pass this, then things have clearly gone wrong, market sentiment is clearly negative, Tiberius selling out.I cannot understand how Davy, Swedbank and the BOD at Ormonde could put this deal together and expect it to fly. Their perspective is the deal is good, the best that can be obtained.Investors both private and institutional have a completely different perspective.Some of the comments on LSE and III are less than complimentary indeed.Why would Oaktree pitch such a hard ball if they know it has to be passed by shareholders?If the motion is defeated, will Oaktree come back with a better offer or will they just buy Ormonde outright?

[admiral jellicoe] 06/5/2015 17:51

About 34 million more!

Dear oh dear... sentiment seems to be negative about the deal... perhaps it won't pass and then the share price will shoot up?

Hard to believe Ormonde was worth 17p in 2005/2006.

If the II dump... then getting the deal over the line is going to be more difficult in my opinion.

[jbe81] 06/5/2015 17:37

question is do they want to sell any more, they have a few!

[lawster] 06/5/2015 14:34

Tiberius selling a few that dropped the price...

[granto2] 05/5/2015 16:58

our best hope is
1 we get into production
2 production is more successful than expected
3 Tungsten goes up in value.
4 we get a buy-out offer for a merger.
5 Oaktree decide to go for buyout.
that is a 4 year product
I think the mine could produce €25m a year and be valued at €200m or £140m and with us holding 30%. £42m
But we are a long way from there today.

[dolores123] 05/5/2015 16:21

Some buying - perhaps we've hit bottom?

[plunger2] 05/5/2015 14:55

While a kind word for ORM's management might be ponderous, they are certainly not rip-off types who help themselves at shareholders expense.
Everything took far too long here and hopes were ratcheted up too high.
The main thing - other than delay and delay and delay - that has gone wrong is the price of tungsten.
I feel that in a very tight situation they have preserved some decent upside for shareholders in the event of a tungsten price recovery. They need to DEMONSTRATE this at the EGM or on the website.
For the last 3 years there was too much optimism on this board; it's only in the last 6-12 mts that more realistic followers have joined in. Hence the disappointment we all feel is probably felt in different measures.

I am definitely of a mind to vote in favour of the Oaktree deal pending further clarity despite my irritation at all these events.

JMHO

[admiral jellicoe] 05/5/2015 12:38

@ Granto,

True enough... but has the debt not been diluted as well?

If Barruecopardo gets split 70 / 30.... is not servicing of the debt and % of debt held by Ormonde split 70 / 30 %?

Debt is important factor in the equation.

[granto2] 05/5/2015 12:23

no dilution? Yes and No. In reality the mine was our asset and it has been diluted. We may not have out number of shares diluted but we have had our stake in the mine diluted. So in fact we really have suffered a dilution.

[admiral jellicoe] 05/5/2015 11:21

@ Granto,

I agree, getting 1/3rd of Barruecopardo will get a number of problems off our back.

1) Payment to Svedbank will be possible.
2) Payment to Davy.
3) Temporary Loan to Oaktree.
4) Management fee to the BoD.. who have expenses ie flights, hotels food etc
5) Uncertainity removed for the project.
6) Monetary income for Ormonde, pay off debts build up small war chest.
7) No dilution for shareholders.

In addition... some good news on the horizon... inflation for the Euro Zone is expected to pick up... Bloomberg reporting this morning a swing from -0.1 to +0.1% which will help II to get out of negative bonds and back into commodities I hope, which should push the price of Tungsten up again.

The alternative is to suffer a 1000:1 dilution of our share price (or something like that).

Short term... there is going to be pain... but I am confident about the share price in 18 months time when the trucks are rolling.

Will I top up... funds are still tight at my end... so I cannot.. however if it continues to drop... I will probably be unable to resist topping up at below 2p.

[temmujin] 05/5/2015 10:40

bought more...way oversold

[granto2] 05/5/2015 09:42

I am voting for it, it is the best deal they could have got. Yes I have taken a loss. That's life. I will hold my shares for the long term. I think the Management team deserve the 1M a year. Best of luck to them.

[jbe81] 05/5/2015 09:04

Jim what is the alternative for Ormonde?

[steelwatch] 05/5/2015 08:45

I'll be voting for.

[digger jim2] 05/5/2015 06:57

Wolf has got decent management !!

I will be voting against Oaktree as it is a bum deal for shareholders.

[terropol] 04/5/2015 23:39

Market Cap of Wolf is 10time that of Ormonde......

[steelwatch] 04/5/2015 14:55

Interesting article just out about Hemerdon, but of particular interest may be the comments on page 3:



Would also draw attention to the 1 year chart in the header which pits WLFE (more advanced), WRES (less?) against ORM and also includes the 50 and 200 MDA lines for ORM.

[admiral jellicoe] 04/5/2015 11:38

Interesting article on Gold / URanium / Tungsten investing news site about commodity prices.

Basically we are in a deflationary spiral, II are going into Bonds, even if Bonds are at negative yields.

This is causing prices of commodities to drop... why buy tungsten today if it is cheaper next month / next year.

Hopefully... Mario and his printing press might get inflation up to 2% by next year.... if so II might get out of bonds... and back into commodities, which could push Tungsten up just in time for the trucks to start rolling out of Barruecopardo!

[admiral jellicoe] 04/5/2015 00:58

Some good comments on III, by Bigbobby20 and Broomfielder + Philip Reid.

I'll be honest, unless another investment house comes galloping over the horizon, we don't have much choice.

I had hoped for a feeding frenzy of suitors for Ormonde, but alas.

It's time to get into production, 1/3 of Barruecopardo is better than nothing.

Remember Ormonde has other assets, Copper Gold at La Zarza and Salamanca. Although these also have joint ventures and La Zarza seems to be up for sale. Perhaps it was an attempt to raise funds for Barruecopardo.

We either take Oaktree or get diluted severely. We have to pay Swedbank and Davy for their work / advice so far in addition to paying the loan of 1.5 m back to Oaktree.

Assuming a income of $21m then Ormonde could be looking at 7 million income per year.

I'll be voting for the deal.

[admiral jellicoe] 02/5/2015 14:22

Guys & Gal, I share your disappointment, this is not turning out to be the multibagger we were hoping.

We can blame the BoD... however so far Ormonde is not getting inundated with offers of a takeover or offers of debt / equity from other investment companies.

BoD at Ormonde have rebuffed Almonty before... and it seems they were right as it would appear that they are kind of "buncaneer type" (glad I don't have shares there).

However how come so many got the whole thing wrong? It was only a few months ago share price Angel were saying Ormonde is worth 6 or 8 p. Numerous articles in various publications were going on about Ormonde and how it was on the verge of a breakthrough.

So yeah... I got it wrong myself... but others a lot smarter than me also did too.

If the Oaktree deal is the only deal on the table then Ormonde does not have much choice.

What I really would like to see is a RE RUN of the figures for Barruecopardo but with the Oaktree deal included, Tungsten at 250 mtu.

In addition I would like the calculations to be ALL in one currency, i.e. All in DOllars and Euro.

If you click on Barruecopardo in the PROJECTS MAP... you get the low down, i.e. payback in 2 yeas, APT at $350

hxxp://www.ormondemining.com/en/projects/barruecopardo_tungsten_project/summary_btp#Summary

We require to get back to brass tacks here..

In fact I think I will write to Mr Anderson and the boys and ask them to have a slide ready which shows a rerun of the figures at the EGM.

On the plus side... a lot of the uncertainity is getting removed, the picture is becoming clearer.

Will I top up... if it goes to 1p... yeah. However if Ormonde turns into a debt servicing vehicle where profits are just used to service debt and the management fee is just used to pay management then I'll bail out, probably won't know this until well into 2018.

Remember... Tungsten is not the only commodity here... investors are nursing losses in Uranium, which is projected to drop in supply and push up prices, Japanese reactor restarts are years behind.

[113mike] 02/5/2015 11:30

Yes, its all very disappointing. Think i'll stick around a bit see what happens...if anything does that is!

[dolores123] 02/5/2015 11:15

Lets face it the ORM directors have sold the lion's share of the main asset at undervalue and are keeping themselves in their jobs sharing a million pound a year.

There is not much left for shareholders unless the price of tungsten substantially improves. It was forecast to rise but that was before the price of oil slumped.

[plunger2] 02/5/2015 10:38

Having faith in ORM's Management is like having faith in a snail crossing the highway without coming to grief.
It may be honestly trying its best but it never seems to be able to cope with the traffic.

JMHO