Share Name Share Symbol Market Type Share ISIN Share Description
Ocean Wilsons (holdings) Ld LSE:OCN London Ordinary Share BMG6699D1074 ORD 20P
  Price Change % Change Share Price Bid Price Offer Price High Price Low Price Open Price Shares Traded Last Trade
  +0.00p +0.00% 830.00p 810.00p 850.00p 830.00p 830.00p 830.00p 51 07:46:19
Industry Sector Turnover (m) Profit (m) EPS - Basic PE Ratio Market Cap (m)
Industrial Transportation 360.9 47.2 29.5 27.9 294

Ocean Wilsons (holdings)... Share Discussion Threads

Showing 1301 to 1324 of 1375 messages
Chat Pages: 55  54  53  52  51  50  49  48  47  46  45  44  Older
DateSubjectAuthorDiscuss
06/8/2018
21:18
WSON33 are up to $48.30 today, using $1.30 exchange rate, the 58.25% held by OCN is worth £400m. April 18 portfolio valn was £213 at the same exchange rate. There are 35,363,040 shares so that’s £17.36 NAV/Share. Obviously lots of variables and NAV currently not anything like cash so a discount is warranted. OCN currently £12.50 so a very interesting discount and a potential liquidity event in the subsidiary. If the WSON33 asset is substantially sold I can’t believe the family would vote to hand it all over to their asset manager. I’m holding tightly for any hint of a distribution which would see the discount close. I also hold Hansa and Hansa A and I think they may all see one of the value managers on share registers soon. We will see. Good luck all.
steve3sandal
06/8/2018
17:31
OCN has risen from about £10 to nearly £13 since the announcement last month. I suspect a certain amount of profit taking amongst holders. OCN are due to update on 15 Aug and hopefully we will see an NAV update which reflects that at £13 their discount is enough to attract buyers. In time I agree that a rising WSON33 should pull up OCN NAV and share price but not necessarily in tandem.
steve3sandal
06/8/2018
17:03
The share price of the Brazilian listed company seems to be slowly rising. OCN seems to be falling. You would have thought the share prices would have moved up and down together.
ntv
28/7/2018
13:22
Now re-united with my copy of the 2017 accounts I would like to add these details to my previous posts although they will be known to anyone else sufficiently interested : Mr W Salomon is aged 60. I believe he is the son of the Walter Saloman, the banker who came over from Hamburg, but he may be the grandson. Mr. C. Townsend is aged 44 and I assume that that he is the present WS's nephew. Between them WS and CT and their families control just over 50% of the capital of OCN, largely through holding a majority of the voting shares in Hansa Trust. There are 3 other shareholders with declared interests amounting between them to nearly 16% being 2 London funds and 1 Brazilian. The 10 year record of the investment side of OCN is undistinguished. In earlier years performance was excellent as the managers found some really good investments but, having cashed these in, they decided to spread the funds amongst a dozen outside managers. All one could say in mitigation is that they have taken a defensive attitude and, if there had been a market collapse recently, then their portfolio might have fallen less than most. If Wilson Sons were to sell the port terminals and connected logistics services, what would they do with the proceeds ? Obviously there is a lot of debt attached to these and there would presumably be Brazilian tax to pay on any gains It is reasonable to expect that they would distribute a large part of the net proceeds amongst their shareholders. Would OCN's 58% share of these proceeds be passed on to its shareholders or used to increase its underperforming investment portfolio ? Our best hope is obviously that Messrs Saloman and Townsend sell up and move on ! Someone here said recently that he would be pleased to take £13 for his shares if the price rose that far. I am hoping for rather more but not confident of getting it.
varies
19/7/2018
17:56
Well this will be very interesting to see what happens. The port business will probably attract a good price relative to their low returns on capital. Definitely a value play. I’m exposed to OCN and Hansa Trust, so hopefully a double win.
topvest
19/7/2018
17:28
LOTM, 04 de July de 2018 Latin America needs USD 55 billion by 2040 to boost maritime and port industry https://tinyurl.com/ycam767j
piedro
19/7/2018
10:21
LOTM I agree with you entirely. All will now depend on whether the Saloman/Townsend families want to do. If all the cousins are on excellent terms with each other, then they might well decide to keep OCN going. In almost any family there are, however, some members who would like to cash in. Glassboy Thank you for telling us about the TCP transaction
varies
19/7/2018
08:29
I see the shop, Cantor, are valuing the terminal assets at $800m. I need to do the math but that looks quite juicy for OCN and Hansa shareholders. Don't expect it will be distributed tho.
sspurt
18/7/2018
17:13
Last year China Merchants Port Holdings paid $924m for 90% of TCP Participações, which is a 1.5m TEU port. That was reported as 14.3x EBITDA. By comparison Wilson Sons have a current 1.1m TEU, agreement to major expansion of capacity at TECON Salavdor and the two logistics hubs. In 2017 EBITDA was $85.2m. Big transaction when Wilson Sons entire market cap is about $870m.
glassboy
18/7/2018
15:50
NTV, The cost of debt to them in Brazil is very low, they get very low rates compared to the normal interest rate. They are due to re-pay over $100M over the next 2 years within Brazil. LOTM
last of the mohicans
18/7/2018
15:02
hansa has returned only 47% over the last 10 years not the best performance especially as they are so called professionals OCN less than 25% though good share trading would improve those returns . the portfolio was last revalued at £5.70 and surely better use of the cash would to have been to pay off all debt any way as cost of debt was probably more than the returns
ntv
18/7/2018
12:16
Interesting discussions on the latest news...please do continue. I quite like the safe haven of firms under generations of family control though OCN and Hansa have ended up offering trading opportunities to me rather than buy and hold. Without fully understanding the potential outcomes of yesterday’s announcement I couldn’t resist sneaking in at 8.00.01 am to see if MMs were awake. Managed to pinch some OCN and HAN before they went up. Discount on discount and a catalyst this time makes for a decent margin of safety to pinch a wiser man’s words. Good luck all.
steve3sandal
18/7/2018
12:14
varies, thanks for the reply, hadn't looked into Walter at all. It will be the grandchildren / great grandchildren coming through into Hansa etc. I think there too smart to go down the liquidity route, its set-up a bit like a pyramid scheme or how Branson controls his Virgin empire. Keep over 50% of the top company in your control, then ensure the next one down has over 50% of the company's it controls and that those one's own 50% of there sub company's. That way you keep ultimate control of everything with as little of your cash tied up as needs be. You effectively get to use other peoples money to achieve what you want. They could have expanded outside Brazil as they keep threatening to do, or been more aggressive in the bidding process for certain assets they were rumored to be interested in but never actually bought because they were out bid on them. If they really cared about the main Hansa fund performance they would have sold down its Ocean Wilson holding in 2010-11 when it had increased 10 fold in like 6 years. They didn't why, because they would have lost overall ownership control of Ocean Wilson's. Which meant years of under performance for Hansa shareholders. (Just for the record none of my family have ever held any Hansa shares that I'm aware off) LOTM
last of the mohicans
18/7/2018
11:18
varies, Dream on I'd say. They effectively floated/sold WSON33 to raise funds for the investment business while effectively keeping overall control of the Wilson & Sons business. They are involve in Hansa as are there children. Did they do Ocean Wilson share buy-backs at massive discounts to the NAV which would have narrowed the underlying discount plus enhanced the value of the outstanding shares ? No they refused, instead charging Ocean Wilson's 2 management fees ie Director fees plus the fee the company pay's to Hansa each year for managing the investments.On top of that the Ocean Wilson shareholders also have to pay fees to the fund of funds the money is invested in. In otherwords Ocean Wilson shareholders take on all the investment risks on a low risk / low reward portfolio (other than the Private Equity part which is much higher risk) while they reap nice yearly income from there jobs at Hansa as well as at Ocean Wilsons. They clearly have plans for the company & there own future requirements, its just not been revealed to the ordinary Ocean Wilson shareholders yet. LOTM
last of the mohicans
18/7/2018
09:43
Glassboy Thank you for posting the comment by Valor. I am very interested to learn that Wilson Sons intends to retain the river tugs business with which the company started, I believe, over 100 years ago. I wonder whether the Salomons have any sentimental attachment to this business. If not, they will surely arrange to take OCN out of Brazil altogether. The stock market investment side of the business has not been successful in recent years and its management is in effect sub-contracted to outside fund managers. Without a holding in Wilson Sons, OCN would have little reason to continue as a company and I hope it would then be liquidated.
varies
18/7/2018
07:53
looks like it was up another 5% in Brazil
ntv
18/7/2018
07:42
many thanks for the epic code Flyfisher
ntv
17/7/2018
20:20
I think its Wilson Sons that is up for sale, rather than Ocean Wilsons. I can see Ocean Wilsons becoming an investment company.
topvest
17/7/2018
19:32
i would happily accept £13 for a sharp exit
ntv
17/7/2018
19:13
All very interesting. Think the Group is effectively now open to a bid.
topvest
17/7/2018
12:52
"Wilson Sons, one of Brazil's largest port, maritime and logistics services operators, has decided to put up for sale four assets to maximize business value. Yesterday, the board of directors approved the beginning of a formal process involving investments in container terminals and logistics, according to the relevant fact sent to the market. The company did not report what or how much they are, but Valor found that they are the two container terminals, Tecon Salvador and Tecon Rio Grande, and two customs facilities - the Logistics and Industrial Customs Center in Santo André (SP) and the customs station of Suape (PE)." www.valor.com.br/empresas/5663577/wilson-sons-poe-venda-4-ativos-de-portos-e-logistica So it seems Wilson Sons is not being sold, continuing to hold the remaining maritime services businesses. And presumably plenty of cash!
glassboy
17/7/2018
12:02
NTV Thanks. The interest in Wilson Sons is worth, if I remember rightly, about 70% of OCN's assets. In the event of OCN selling this for cash and distributing most of the proceeds amongst us, we might well receive about £7 per share. I believe that UK shareholders would then be treated for CGT as having made a proportionate disposal. For example a holder of 1,000 shares might receive £7,000 and retain shares worth £7,000 xc. If the cost of his shares was £500, then 7/14ths of this cost would be attributed to the cash distribution and 7/14ths to the shares retained. So his gain for CGT on the cash distribution would be £6,750. We are, of course, a long way from such an outcome.
varies
17/7/2018
11:30
i agree varies, i think it will be the chinese CGT would only be payable if the whole company was bought and as no deal has been done yet i shouldn't worry maybe they will pay a special dividend if a deal is done. only thoughs close to the company will know. if a only amount of the business is sold they probably only pay down debt imho
ntv
17/7/2018
09:07
These container ports will certainly interest the Chinese who have, for example, built huge ports in Sri Lanka and, I believe, Somalia. Whether the Brazilian government would let the Chinese buy them is another matter. A large holding (say 30% ???) in Sociedad Quimica (SQM), a huge lithium mining company in Chile, became available last year and the Chilean government refused to let the Chinese buy this. I have held OCN shares for over 30 years (bought at under 50p). I see from the graph that the share price peaked at £14 in 2011 but I believe we may now see a significant rise in our asset value. The Saloman family still control OCN, partly through Hansa Trust, and I have no idea what their intentions may be. If Wilson Sons can be sold, then we might reasonably expect a distribution of the proceeds. There are likely to be substantial liabilities to Brazilian tax and, for many of us, to CGT. I am holding on.
varies
Chat Pages: 55  54  53  52  51  50  49  48  47  46  45  44  Older
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