Ocean Wilsons (holdings)... Share Discussion Threads

[piedro] 08/6/2021 23:30

RNS Number : 5048Z Ocean Wilsons Holdings Ltd 24 May 2021 OWHL - Subsidiary, WSL - Proposed Restructuring ... The Proposed Restructuring is intended to simplify and optimise the Group's corporate structure, increase stock liquidity and facilitate the Wilson Sons' access to capital markets. ... IMO this restructuring will allow the move of the WSON shares to the 'main' market which is more serious, {like getting promoted from AIM to the FTSE}. Institutions will feel more confident to invest, capital may be raised if necessary and as can be seen the share price is being re-rated. I note that an astute Director has acquired 2,000 shares, but the lag in the share price perhaps reflects a certain distrust of the OCN bod.

[flyfisher] 08/6/2021 16:30

Wilson sons has been rising over the last couple of weeks and the real has been strengthening against the USD. It does not seem to be reflected in the OCN price. Is their any wson33 news or rumour that has caused the rise? I get a current sotp of 1751p for OCN implying a 39% discount at current price, much higher than the historic norm.

[piedro] 30/5/2021 00:57

Thank you flyfisher. I see that in resolutions #4,5 and 7 more than 10% of the votes were against. May those directors take note.

[flyfisher] 29/5/2021 11:21

1 To receive and, if approved, adopt the Directors’ Report and Accounts for the year ended 31 December 2020. 2 To declare a dividend of 70 cents per share. 3 To determine the maximum number of Directors for the ensuing year as nine and authorise the Board of Directors to elect or appoint on the Members’ behalf a person or persons to act as additional Directors up to such maximum number to serve until the conclusion of the next Annual General Meeting. 4 To re-elect Mr. J. F. Gouvêa Vieira as a Director until the next Annual General Meeting. 5 To re-elect Mr. W. Salomon as a Director until the next Annual General Meeting. 6 To re-elect Mr. A. Berzins as a Director until the next Annual General Meeting. 7 To re-elect Mr. C. Townsend as a Director until the next Annual General Meeting. 8 To re-elect Ms. F. Beck as a Director until the next Annual General Meeting. 9 To elect Ms. C. Foulger as a Director until the next Annual General Meeting. 10 To re-appoint Ernst & Young LLP as the Auditor and authorise the Directors to fix the remuneration of the Auditor. 11 Ratification and confirmation of all and any actions taken by the Board of Directors and the persons entrusted with Company’s management in the year ended 31 December 2020.

[piedro] 28/5/2021 10:30

AGM Results out Does anyone know what the proposals were and were you invited?

[varies] 13/5/2021 11:21

Having bought my shares at about 50p over 40 years ago, I take a languid view of the ups and downs. OCN has been very consistent over the years in paying a good dividend and the current yield of over 5% (or 100% on my original purchase)is a very welcome addition to my income. This has changed little in recent years but looks to me more likely to go up than down once Brazil recovers from Covid19. I do agree, however, that OCN's investment record has been uninspiring. Old Walter Salomon had a golden touch which his descendants plainly do not.

[pugugly] 13/5/2021 08:55

LTOM - Thanks for making me aware of the Incestuous HANSA relationship - Probably a very pertinent reason for ditching OCN in spite of the discount. Remember the old Lancashire saying "Clogs to clogs in 3 generations"

[last of the mohicans] 12/5/2021 21:36

PUGUGLY, Your forgetting that most of the family (younger generations) work for Hansa, so OCN via the management fee is paying there wages and keeping them employed. So there not going to change the overall fund managers are they. There also the ones that select which funds the money then goes into ...... which is why there are so many funds in the investment portfolio to make it look to the unobserved that its a "real portfolio" its not, only the top 25 holdings at most actually add or lose the portfolio serious money If OCN had merely placed all the money it got from selling the Wilson & Sons stake back in 2007 directly in the MSCI All Country World Index inc. (or a fund that mirrored it) missed out Hansa altogether then the portfolio value would now be north of $600M. LOTM

[pugugly] 12/5/2021 12:14

flyfisher - Agreed fro benifit of family and if I was a member of the family I would take a chainsaw to the fund managers - as I said before diabolical performance. Would have done better - probably - to put it all into ETS's- massive saving on management fees.

[eezymunny] 12/5/2021 09:50

Indeed flyfisher. I had a big % holding (for me) in OCN, bought near the lows, and have trimmed it right back recently- purely on the likelihood of a significant discount persisting. A sale of Wilson's could happen at any time of course, but that has been true for decades (and I haven't got many decades left). I'll keep a decent holding at this price mind you...

[flyfisher] 12/5/2021 09:09

Good to see that you are still around Eezy. In a rational world yes, but this is a family trust run for the benefit of the family, not the minority shareholders.

[eezymunny] 12/5/2021 08:21

"The gross time-weighted performance of the portfolio YTD is 7.5%. This compares to 9.1% for the MSCI All Country World Index inc. Frontier Markets over the same period." Hardly diabolical, but in any sane world OCN would simply sell up the portfolio, return cash to shareholders and let them invest it as they wish. IMVHO, which counts for diddly squat...

[pugugly] 12/5/2021 07:57

From todays rns. net asset value per Ocean Wilsons share of US$20.03 (£14.50) per share. The Ocean Wilsons share price of £9.25 at 30 April 2021 represented an implied discount of 36.2% Diabolical discount and poor performance of the investment portfolio both in absolute terms and relative to the market - They should fire the asset managers (imo)

[flyfisher] 12/5/2021 07:43

A solid update today, it still trades at 32% discount to a SOTP valuation and gives a 5% yield.

[flyfisher] 23/4/2021 08:19

WSON33 share price has risen in excess of 20% in the last 3 weeks, which has not been mirrored by OCN who hold the majority. Brazilian real has firmed against the $, and the investment portfolio should have had a good Q1. Perhaps OCN will catch up with events.

[piedro] 18/3/2021 14:42

I've never been taken by the Investment Portfolio. WSON is where its at ISRAELI TECH AIDS BRAZILIAN PORT NAVIGATION hTTps://www.portstrategy.com/news101/world/south-america/israeli-tech-aids-brazilian-port-innovation - this could give towage and agency operations quite some edge - AIMHO

[varies] 15/3/2021 10:11

Last of the Mohicans. How time flies. I had not realised that it is nearly ten years since OCN's share price hit £14. Even if one added back the dividends received during this period, one would probably be showing a loss on any shares bought at £14 ten years ago, certainly in real terms if not nominal. Let us hope the next ten years prove more profitable for us outside shareholders than the last. I fear like Pugugly that I shall have passed on before the value gets unlocked but I shall enjoy my dividends.

[eezymunny] 15/3/2021 09:39

The market cap is a total nonsense IMO. Wilson Sons holding valued at c. £20m over and above the investment portfolio. As nonsensical as it gets IMO. All moving targets of course...

[pugugly] 15/3/2021 07:55

"Net Asset Value At the close of markets on 31 December 2020, the Wilson Sons' share price was R$45.30 (US$8.73), resulting in a market value for the Ocean Wilsons holding of 41,444,000 shares (57.77% of Wilson Sons) totalling approximately US$361.5 million which is the equivalent of US$10.22 (£7.48) per Ocean Wilsons share. Adding the market value per share of Wilsons Sons of US$10.22 and the investment portfolio at 31 December 2020 of US$8.77 results in a net asset value per Ocean Wilsons Holdings Limited share of US$19.00 (£13.89). The Ocean Wilsons Holdings Limited share price was £8.45 at 31 December 2020." No sign yet of value being unlocked for shareholders. Bid/offer pre open 810/820. Must be one of the bigget discounts in the market - but most of us may well have passed on before it gets to parity.

[last of the mohicans] 14/3/2021 20:04

EezyMunny No, I'm sorry but you need to understand the company and its financials much better. I never said anything linking EPS with the company's value (actual or even possible value). EPS are linked to dividends, its unsustainable for a business to be earning less than it is paying out in dividends, yes it can be smoothed out for a short period of time, but that's as far as it goes, after that you're building up major problems. Varies, the fact they farm out the management of the portfolio is part of the problem, if they actually gave the funds to groups capable of making money, we might have a decent sized portfolio by now, the fact they haven't means it's money effectively doing nothing for OCN shareholders but keeps their coy setup going I think the share price high was in 2011 actually, so 10 years of serious under performance, same for Hansa Trust. (You'll have noted that the trust has a lot of the same holding as in the OCN portfolio itself). As I said if it wasn't for the one investment they've got right - Findlay Park American (FPA), the whole shareholder base would be up in arms about it all ! They even sold FPA twice, (once I think fully) and then bought them back (not as many as we had originally) if they had the holding would be worth north of $35M right now. However that would cause them a problem in itself as it would be near or at the upper limit of the amount they are allowed to have in one particular fund! They've never found other investment to properly complement FPA and thus grow at a similar sort of rate or one that we could describe as acceptable and thus not require FPA to be reduced to stay within the limits. What was meant to happen from 07/08 as part of shareholders agreeing to the Wilson & Sons float, was that some of the fund would be paid out in dividends, until they realised within 3 years that that wasn't sustainable given all the $ Millions that were being lost in management fees. Not for out performance, but mediocre results at best. What I find amazing is the graph's they produce each year as to the funds performance and it always refers to a certain index, well if they'd just invested in that index or mimicked it for the last 10 years, the value of the portfolio would be multiples of what it is now ! but none of them are smart enough to have worked that out ! LOTM

[varies] 14/3/2021 12:24

Lasr of the Mohicans, I agree with almost every word you say. The present generation of Walter Saloman's descendants lack his acumen and it is just as well from our point of view that management of the portfolio is farmed out. We do indeed suffer a double helping of charges on this. To my mind this unsatisfactory situation is allowed for by the share price but I appreciate that others may think it is not. The reference to an all-time high in the title to this thread is some 6 years out of date, I believe, and we would obviously all have done better to sell at £14 when we could. My holding here goes back to the 1980s and I now receive back year after year the capital invested as a dividend : a yield on my cost of about 100%. So I have a sentimental attachment to OCN which may cloud my judgment.

[eezymunny] 14/3/2021 09:39

LOTM The EPS numbers aren't a great guide to putting a value on OCN IMO. EPS swings wildly with exchange rate. You need to work harder...

[last of the mohicans] 13/3/2021 20:07

varies, The investment portfolio is only there to give jobs to the controlling families children, grandchildren and relatives etc Ocean Wilson's pays its directors to manage the investment fund (which they created for there own purposes). They then passed it on to Hanseatic I think it was, but might have been renamed now, who ran the Hansa Trust etc, which is why they have control of OCN. We pay several £ million a year in fees to have the investment portfolio managed by them and all they do is pass it on to other's to manage on there behalf where we end up paying a 2nd lot of fees which for the private equity managers will run in £'s in the so called good years The portfolio, takes very few risks and is just a mirage, yes there are 40+ holdings which is designed to impress you at first sight until you realise that anything below the top 15-20 has no purpose at all (other than window dressing). They could all double in price and it would hardly affect the value of the portfolio ( and it couldn't happen anyway as some or designed as long-only, other short only, other's neutral) Its there just to keep the extended family employed with salary's they wouldn't get in the real world. If it hadn't been for the performance of Findlay Park American fund over the last 10 years there would have been a total outcry from shareholders about the non-returns that were occurring I thought the Private Equity investments would change things, but they haven't, they haven't choosen the managers wisely and on top of that the sums of money there investing in each one are far to small to generate a meaningful return should they succeed. LOTM

[varies] 13/3/2021 11:15

Last of the Mohicans Brazil is indeed in a sorry state with terrible Covid numbers. OCN's investment portfolio does, however, provide some protection from a downturn at Wilson Sons. This portfolio seems to be rather cautiously managed, being spread amongst many funds and hedged to some extent against a fall in the US stock market. This policy has not paid off recently. Whilst accepting that next year's dividend looks insecure, I believe that OCN will provide a good yield in the medium term.

[last of the mohicans] 13/3/2021 01:21

@ EezyMunny, Yes dividend is being maintained by Wilson & Sons so happy to be proved wrong. I thought they might have to cut it by 20% or so. Just been looking through the actual numbers EPS numbers are horrible :( last year they were 42.74 cents this year 27.17 cents (not much difference between basic and diluted in either year) Dividend payable 54 cents Yes I know the constant significant currency movements have to be taken into account, but a dividend payment that is 2 times Earnings for the year is totally unsustainable. Even if you also factor in less capex the next couple of years etc and reduced COVID costs, still not sustainable. They need a significant turnaround in the oil and gas sector to help the numbers as well as a better exchange rate to boost the container terminal overall numbers. LOTM