Ocean Wilsons (holdings)... Share Discussion Threads

[last of the mohicans] 08/5/2024 06:32

Oh my goodness the OCN announcement doesn't even mention the Wilson & Sons dividend, let alone OCN going to make a dividend payment.

So are they going to introduce a half yearly payment later or are they simply going to pocket the rough $0.25 per share payout & add it to the investment fund (or put it in the bank) to try & enhance the investment performance over the year.

LOTM

[last of the mohicans] 07/5/2024 23:21

Financial results were good especially from the container terminals.

April's container terminal numbers are fabulous especially at RG. If it continues along those lines then its going to be a bumper quarter & Terminal utilisations are going to jump considerable. That in turn will lead to even better results in cash terms for the terminals because of the amount of fixed costs that are now being spread across so many containers.

Good times ahead I'd say.

The big questions for the morning is whether Ocean Wilson is going to move to quarterly Dividend payments as well.

GLA
LOTM

[last of the mohicans] 07/5/2024 22:36

Wow looks like Wilson & Sons are moving to quarterly dividends & the Q1 one is a biggie!

Shareholders will receive Dividends in the total amount of R$0.17273618 per common share issued by the Company ("Shares"), which is equivalent to R$76,002,001.83 on this date

Still waiting to see the actual quarterly numbers but this suggests they might be even better than I was expecting.

LOTM

[eezymunny] 03/5/2024 07:14

Well done for apologising LOTM but seriously, why post about cash guzzling monsters on the wrong boards? Pretty daft.

[last of the mohicans] 02/5/2024 19:47

I'm truly Sorry to everyone who has bought in recently to MIRI, following me highlighting the company & asking people to take a look at it.

Yes I did know a fund raise was a possibility, but I didn't see it coming so soon & its slightly larger than the £5M max requirement that I thought they might needed.

The issue price is a disgrace quiet frankly, if that's the best the company can do with the pipeline of opportunities it has & all the hints its been giving through informal channels. The CEO has a lot of explaining to do & his position is in Jeopardy for sure after this, if not untenable.

Again my sincere apologies to everyone.

LOTM

[extrader] 02/5/2024 16:08

If you have a barbell investment strategy, there's room for variety : I have (or have had) a number of 'mad money' investments in new field (for me) shares, as part of my self-education process (fintech, spac, IPO etc).

As a 'male, pale and stale/retired' investor, I bought early doors into a startup selling internet fashion to 18-30 year olds.

I followed paulypilot into a company called As Seen on Screen, largely after a conversation with my daughter and her friends.

I bought 100K ASC @ av. 4.9p. The shares peaked at GBP 75....
No, I sold out way before that, driven by tax considerations (withdrawal of AIM taper relief), but it was still a useful 30-bagger. And a note to self not to let the tax tail wag the investment dog !

I for one am grateful to LOTM for his helpful insights into OCN and - on an otherwise traffic-free board - for his observations re MIRI.

If you've got anything on topic to say about OCN, of course, that would be great :

' Be the change you want to see'

You'll probably also consider all of this post as O/T, but I'll close by saying that - after 3+ hours DMOR - I've put a toe in the MIRI waters.



GLA and OTB

[samsj] 02/5/2024 10:05

You're right about it being off-topic for Ocean Wilson; in fact, it is downright bizarre. A cash guzzling microcap burning through multiples more cash than it has in revenues and will have to raise in a matter of months.

[cousinit] 28/3/2024 15:21

Perky today though

[meanreverter] 25/3/2024 23:04

Edison made an elementary blunder in the table presented in its flash update: missing that OCN reports in USD while its shares are quoted in GBP. All the numbers in the table are wrong. Changing the headings from pounds and pence to dollars and cents isn't enough: the calculated P/Es and yields are still all in error.

If Edison gets in a muddle over such a simple issue, what else does it get wrong?

[extrader] 25/3/2024 21:11

Unfortunate choice of words!
'Brief' or 'go short'?

;->

ATB

[flyfisher] 25/3/2024 16:47

Edison have updated their coverage with a short comment..

[varies] 25/3/2024 15:31

Last of the Mohicans
Although I may be one of the longest standing shareholders on this thread, l cannot claim to be an expert on the Salomon family and its connection with OCN.
Anyone interested could probably find more on looking up the late Walter Salomon on Wikipedia. Amongst other interests he controlled Rea Brothers.
If there is a suitor for Wilson Sons, he seems to be in no hurry and l doubt if the strategic review will come to much.
We do at least have a good increase in the dividend.

[last of the mohicans] 25/3/2024 08:59

Livingstone20,

If you want to go back to 2002 the share price was about 75p a share.

It did very well from 2002 to 2011 with a couple of hiccups in between, since then zero has been achieved.

Most of the 2002 to 2011 rise was on the back of the growth in Brazil & the start up of the container terminals taking hold in meaningful numbers.

As to point 4 I didn't research back then how the 2 family/Hansa/OCN configuration came about initially perhaps @varies can shed some light on when it actually occurred etc.

LOTM

[livingstone20] 25/3/2024 08:08

2024 minus 20 years takes to 2004 where the share price shows as 155p.

On point 4 I’m not saying it will happen but I certainly believe it could happen. There was enough appetite initially to create a complex structure of HAN/HANA/OCN/Wilson spanning London, Jersey, Bermuda and Brazil so with suitable advice I’m sure an appropriate mix of special dividends, buy backs, tender offers and combination into voting and non-voting could achieve whatever desired outcome they targeted.

[last of the mohicans] 24/3/2024 21:43

Livingston20,

Point 4)

I have no idea what you're talking about ....

"Having checked the performance graphs ‘20 year long suffering shareholders of OCN’ have seen their investment rise close to x10 without counting the dividends so haven’t done too bad overall!!"

What have you checked ?

Investment rise x10

The share price was over £14 per OCN share in 2011.
The Investment portfolio as I highlighted the other day was worth $275M+ back in 2007

In other words the last 13 years have been of nothing but the destruction of long-term shareholder value.

If they had either stuck with fully owning Wilson & Sons & not sold off the stake in 2007 or Invested the cash raised in the index instead. OCN itself would be worth an additional $250M (by still owning all of Wilson & Sons) & the dividends paid to shareholders over the years much higher. Or an additional $500M+ by having the cash invested in the index & not paying out $50M to Hanseatic over the years & all the other significant managerial fees on private equity & listed funds that have lower fees.

3) Can't happen I explained why several month's ago (because of the structure of Hansa A & B shares) & what Hansa would be worth compared to the value of OCN held by the minority shareholders.

LOTM

[livingstone20] 24/3/2024 20:18

Certainly lots to digest this weeks. 1) Joined the Wilson, Sons results call Friday - again amazingly no mention at all of the strategic review in either the management presentation or during the Q&A. That said I submitted a question previously in this forum about their last strategic review and it wasn’t read out. There were two questions about the separation out of Svitzer from Maersk. Context was competition but a global tug company with public growth ambitions for Brazil may also perhaps be an interested party to acquire tug elements of Wilson if it was split under strategic review?? This was a new angle to me so other views welcomed. 2) Similarly consistently disappointed when the quarterly results don’t include the NAV, when that would seem the single most useful thing to include!! I mailed the previous OCN investor relations director on this topic with no response and would encourage all interested to do same with new one. Whilst they are not formally an investment trust they are not obligated to do so but it would surely benefit discount narrowing if this more obviously transparent vs having to make manual personal calculations. 3) Interesting point on the note 11 long term commitments - I personally wouldn’t read too much into that as in any wind-up scenario I would envisage assets and commitments being merged into HAN in time - but that would likely only follow later. 4) Having checked the performance graphs ‘20 year long suffering shareholders of OCN’ have seen their investment rise close to x10 without counting the dividends so haven’t done too bad overall!! 5) I can’t really complain about the PSH position as it was coincidentally already independently my largest SIPP holding!

[phil140158] 22/3/2024 13:23

I expected the share price to fall today on the back of the passing reference to the strategic review. However, the volume traded is very low. I wonder what would happen if some big sell orders came in?

[jane deer] 22/3/2024 11:57

Four points struck me from the text in the results statement today:

a). There was no discount to NAV calculation (this is usually included in the results - and often highlighted). By my calculation the discount is around 52% as of today.

b). There was only a tangential reference to the strategic review - mentioning it as a potential factor in the higher share price.

c). Theree has been an increase in the long-term capital commitments of OWIL (note 11). This would not seem consistent with any potential winding up of OWIL, which would be a best-best case for minority shareholders.

d). As mentioned already by others, the 85c dividend is below a mere pass through of the Wilson Sons’ dividends. My understanding of OCN’s dividend policy was that it was to pass through the Wilson Sons divs and then to top up (very marginally) with some cash from the investment portfolio.

All 4 of these points seem to be negative to me.

[cousinit] 22/3/2024 11:28

One thing of interest from the Wilson Sons release yesterday was the share buyback.

Is that something that may kick in while the strategic review remains ongoing?

If it doesn't, is it a potential backstop to the share price if the status quo remains? (at least to a degree)

[varies] 22/3/2024 11:27

c3479z
The performance of the investment portfolio over the last many years has indeed been disappointing compared with most indices but it has been managed with an emphasis on protection against risk. I believe that this policy dates back to the days when the Brazilian currency had to be adjusted every month against the US$.
I have been a shareholder even longer than you, so it seems, having bought my shares at under 50p in the 1970s.
OCN has paid dividends almost every year and l suggest that if you take into account the dividends you have received during your many years of being a shareholder, you will find that this has proved a not unsatisfactory investment.
With hindsight l wish l had sold my shares at £14 ten years ago and bought them back at half the price later but we could all be millionnaires if allowed to job backwards.

It is rather surprising that we are told nothing about the "strategic review" except that it continues. I rather expected an announcement with these results that it had been concluded and that OCN would retain its present form.

[c3479z] 22/3/2024 09:55

as a longsuffering holder more than 20 yr of Hana and OCN agree the portfolio's performance has been very poor over the last 15yr too much hedging and financial engineering, will be interesting to see what happens over the ongoing review.

[last of the mohicans] 22/3/2024 07:39

c3479z,

Portfolio had an awful year, see the table under performed the Index the cash should be invested in by 12.1% gross or 13.2% net, there giving away over 5% of our money each year & then compound interest it.

Cumulative Portfolio Returns

2023 2022 3 years p.a. 5 years p.a.

OWIL 10.1% -13.8% 3.2% 6.9%

OWIL (Net)* 8.9% -14.7% 2.0% 5.7%

MSCI ACWI + FM NR US$ 22.2% -18.4% 5.7% 11.7%

Dividend is less than the amount they've received from Wilson & sons plus the interest on it for over 8 month's on some of it & 5 months on another chunk of it.

The Chair lady has to go - end of story totally in the back pocket of the 2 families.

Not at all happy

LOTM

[c3479z] 22/3/2024 07:29

seems the strategic review is 'ongoing': investment portfolio had a bit better year Findlay and Pershing doing particularly well, though won't reflect the whole market with all their hedge fund exposure,
is there an up to date valuation of the investment portfolio?

[meanreverter] 22/3/2024 06:37

Thank you, LotM, for all your valuable postings. Just one pedantic nitpick: The company's official name is “Wilson, Sons”, as appears in its logo and headings. In text, it refers to itself as “Wilson Sons” (i.e. without the comma), which is the model I would follow. It doesn't have an ampersand in its name.