Andrada Mining Share Discussion Threads

[samsung66] 01/5/2004 09:20

innovation99

Since when has the market bothered about profit and loss, the others clearly have more to go for on the transaction side, either Moneybox has to higher market cap based on your P&L bases, or my maths are correct.

Time will tell?

[innovation99] 30/4/2004 23:46

Samsung

Like your maths! Oh, joy to the world if estimated values of companies were that easy, the thought of not having to take into account a companies profit & loss or ratios or etc etc would be one to behold.

In terms of machines it true Moneybox do only have 19% of the paid ATM market, but the big secret is they have a quarter (26% and growing) of the transactions leaving the others Scott Todd, Card Point and the other ATM minnows to squabble for the rest. How can this be? Location Location Location !!!! or in business terms - 'first mover advantage'.

There are a number of other major reasons as to why Moneybox is the No 1 paid ATM outfit but I think the example above will surfice.

[samsung66] 30/4/2004 18:23

Moneybox 93m maket cap 2,500 ATM,s

Cardpoint 46m M/C 2,050 ATM's

Scott Tod 23m M/C 2,000 ATM's by June, my maths that makes Scott Tod double the current share price of 68p

[chirpychap] 27/4/2004 16:10

Handsome - why the sudden rise?

[bengo] 20/4/2004 21:26

I agree with chirpy share will drift on lack of news, it's still early days, better the management take their time and invest/spend the money wisely.

[jimibt] 20/4/2004 17:58

Handsome - IC is well known to carry the kiss of death. but atm should bounce back from 47p if it reaches it.

[handsome] 20/4/2004 17:48

Steady drop - seems right -

Down again 500,000+ shares appear to have been sold.

Note main competitor CARDPOINT up 8p

Anyone have any ideas, why the drop especialy after comments in Investors Chronicle ?

[chirpychap] 16/4/2004 13:39

id say drift not drop
maybe - no significant news?

[facer] 16/4/2004 11:46

anybody have any reasons for the steady drop ?

[divina] 16/4/2004 08:19

INVESTORS CHRONICLE

Six of the best AIM newcomers:
* RAB Capital - Moneybox - Torex Retail - Offshore Hydrocarbon Mapping - European Nickel - Omega

[property67] 15/4/2004 13:47

Why has all the talk on ATM and ABI dried up!!!!!
Doe's anyone know what is going on!!.......Do not know whether to hold out or sell......

Heard that Stimpson has sold out his stake...

Anyone out there!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[dvda] 05/4/2004 12:39

LBO - I'm pretty sure they didn't dislocse the price. Even if you can find it somewhere I wouldn't read too much into it as:
1) The UK and Irish markets are different, therefore valuations are not readily comparable.
2) Ulster bank already had a strategic Partnership with them prior to the purchase.

[lbo] 31/3/2004 10:04

FYI also "Shares Mag" Comment

Competition at the cashpoints is hotting up with new-boy Moneybox (with a convenient epic-code ATM) joining the AIM market.

Moneybox (AIM:ATM), which was part of Ambient (AIM:ABI), started trading a week ago at 47p, after raising £20 million.

The company is valued at just over £100 million and will be using part of the funds raised to buy G2, which develops cashless payment systems. The rest of the money will be used to expand the business at home and abroad.

'We will double the size of our ATM estates in Germany and the Netherlands this year and they should be profitable by the yearend. We will also sign more agreements with banks and building societies to manage their ATMs this year,' chief executive Paul Stanley told Shares.

Moneybox made an operating loss of £0.13 million for the 11 months to December, 2003, markedly down from £5.6 million loss for 2002. It is already profitable in the UK, where it is market leader in terms of transactions.

Rivals in the cashpoint market include Cardpoint (AIM:CASH), one of Shares' tips of the year, and Scott Tod (AIM:SCD).

Shares says: Moneybox's shares have risen 9% 51.5p since listing, but should have further to go.

[lbo] 31/3/2004 09:49

Anyone heard of EasyCash?

It was a similar business in Ireland that was Privately owned. It was recently sold for an undisclosed figure to Ulster Bank (subsiduary of NatWest/RBOS)

Trying to see what valuation was put on it.

[crazylegs140873] 30/3/2004 17:46

nitwit cardpoint does not need ramping as it is fundamentaly sound, and if you had done any research you may well draw the same conclusions as ricky9, however if you don't want to read other peoples opinions keep off the bb's.

[nilip] 30/3/2004 10:03

ricky,

If you want to ramp cardpoint, why don't you do it on the cardpoint thread ?

By all means ramp away about cardpoint as much as you like, but for pitty sake, do it on the cardpoint thread.

Do you really think you're going to entice MoneyBox holders into moving their investment into cardpoint by your non-sensicle ramping ?

I for one certainly believe that MoneyBox is trading at a discount when you compare it to cardpoint, and as an investor who wants to invest in the growth of the ATM business then MoneyBox is my choice as I believe it offers much more capital growth.

I quote (I think this quote was from CityWire) :

"Traders pointed out that the company is 30 pct cheaper than its main quoted
competitor, Cardpoint"

[ricky9] 30/3/2004 00:41

Better get some money in Cardpoint before they fly.

[loadthevan] 29/3/2004 22:32

www.evbg.com 29 March 2004
Cardpoint (CASH) Buy (unchanged)
Mkt cap: £44m Net cash: £0.3m Comment Price/Target: 150p/133p
Cardpoint (CASH) Buy (unchanged)
Mkt cap: £44m Net cash: £0.3m Comment Price/Target: 150p/133p
More for your money
Cardpoint's share price has had a strong run this year as investors have
warmed to its business model and track record. Despite this, it is valued at
a discount to its newly quoted competitor.
Cardpoint's closest quoted competitor Moneybox (ATM.L) has been trading
for a few days. Its share price has been in a range of 50-52p a relatively
modest premium to its flotation price of 47p. Although competitors in terms
of delivery of convenience ATM services, there are important points of
differentiation between the businesses.
• Cardpoint's root is strong organic growth, but since flotation it has
established itself as the leading sector consolidator. Moneybox has been
grown organically
• Cardpoint's estate is almost exclusively of managed ATMs. Moneybox
has 1,100 merchant replenishment ATMs (smaller and lower volume)
• Cardpoint's estate (approx 2000 ATMs) is mainly wholly owned,
depreciated over 5 years. Moneybox's estate (2,400 in the UK, 180 in
Netherlands and 180 in Germany) is funded by 7 year operating leases.
Moneybox is looking to build fastest its merchant replenishment, Dutch
and German estates. Cardpoint has just entered the German market
• Moneybox's average transactions/ATM/month is 1,400 (for the
managed ATMs) and 500 (for the merchant fill ATMs). Cardpoints
average is 975. Cardpoint's average is diluted by the Securicor
acquisition
• Cardpoint's average withdrawal fee is 154p. Moneybox's is nearer to
150p
• Moneybox has a net cash balance of £14.5m on its balance sheet. We
estimate that Cardpoint will end the year with net debt of £3.9m.
Cardpoint continues to seek acquisition opportunities to consolidate
further the sector utilising funding from the market as previously.
Moneybox has indicated that the cash balance, war chest, is to be used
for unspecified acquisitions
• Neither group is currently paying tax because of past losses
• Both groups have non-ATM businesses. Cardpoint's is the mobile
phone-top up business, which we estimate to contribute £0.3m on sales
of £9m this year. Moneybox has an electronic security / vending card
business, with turnover of about £10m and 10% margin.
As to valuation. Cardpoint is trading at a discount to Moneybox. EV/EBITA
probably provides the best comparator ratio for the groups. Our preliminary
estimates for Moneybox show turnover of £39m and pre-tax profit of £3m for
this year and £66m and £7.7m, respectively, for next year (years to Dec). On a
market cap of £103m this gives an EV/rev of 1.3x and EV/EBITA of 12.4x for
12/05E. For Cardpoint, we have £32m of turnover and £2.4m of operating
profit for the year to Sept 2004 and £37m and £4.0m, respectively, for next
year. On a market cap of £44m, this gives EV/rev of 1.2x and EV/EBITA
10.7x for 9/05E. There seems to be no good reason for Cardpoint trading at a
discount to Moneybox, aside from size, Cardpoint's longer record as a public
company and wider coverage argue for a valuation premium.

[facer] 29/3/2004 19:21

anyone any idea of the potential for this one ?

[lom2] 29/3/2004 08:39

bbbbbbzzzzzzzzz wake up

[bengo] 26/3/2004 22:33

duurr! thanks facer.
yes as u say a good pick up, though i don't understand how when 64k buys and 89k sells.

[facer] 26/3/2004 18:30

'shares' magazine.

nice pick up today

[bengo] 26/3/2004 17:33

which mag please 21?

[21up] 26/3/2004 14:01

tipped in shares mag.