Andrada Mining Share Discussion Threads

[nilip] 23/3/2004 21:28

DiogenesJ,

Excellent link - Thanks.

[bengo] 22/3/2004 18:00

Hi Diogenes,

Not been able to find much info on atm myself so thanks a lot for the ft article.

[diogenesj] 22/3/2004 17:18

I am not here to slag Moneybox off: I hold Cardpoint and Scott Tod, and I am here to find out whether I should buy Moneybox as well. The question I can't find any answer to is when is it expected to break even and when is it expected to make a profit.

I see from the prospectus and the last Ambient accounts that the UK operations made an operating profit of £1.99m, but this was outweighed by losses of £2.43m on the German and Dutch operations. They have now placed an additional 46m shares at the flotation (making a total of 199m) and given options over another 8.5m shares to various no doubt deserving directors, with another 5m option give-away planned. Some considerable dilution has taken place here, and this year will have to bear the flotation expenses as well. What I have not been able to find is any projection at all of future sales or profits, without which I am a bit reluctant to jump in.

No doubt some broker has this information and has already shared it with institutional clients, but apparently not with anyone here.

By the way, there is a good article on the business by David Blackwell in today's Financial Times (probably why all three started the day up, though Cardpoint dropped back later):

[divina] 22/3/2004 16:10

Anyone else having problems adding ATM to monitor?

[dvda] 22/3/2004 09:44

innovation99

I believe you are slightly wrong in your interpretation. Moneybox has the bigger share of transactions as it operates over 100 ATMs that do not charge. These will mainly be ATMs that resulted from it's relationship with Norwich & Peterborough and Bradford & Bingley. As these are free to use machines, they will do considerably more transactions than machines that charge £1.50.

Cardpoint only has c. 30 'free' ATMs.

[urpo] 21/3/2004 23:52

Interesting stats... you don't happen to have to hand where they came from? I haven't been able to pull up that kind of detail.

Thanks.

[innovation99] 21/3/2004 17:47

Divina - Your right!

The "Card" sharps come snopping to figure out why Moneybox is double the market cap but roughly same size and then slag them off. Why dont they look at the two set of accounts to work it out! Lets keep it simple for them. Moneybox only has 19% of the paid ATM market but processes over 26% of the Transactions - its called "first mover advantage" where Moneybox has grabbed the best sites for high turnover of transaction which means the money is "growing on trees" for them

[crm199] 19/3/2004 21:34

There does indeed seem to be a lack of infomation on Moneybox at the present. I think one needs to look at Cardpoints fundamentals and try to make comparisons and judgements based on the sector at this time. I hold Cardpoint and bought a small holding ATM today, but currently am wary of pilling into ATM. I am always cautious of companies that have been spun out - i.e Ambient - basically I always ask Why? Also Ambient may have run this company one way in regard to cap.ex. it does not mean it will continue that way.

Also with this sector there is a saturation point - after all the majority of people don't use these cash machines as basically they are a rip off. This is why CASH have moved to diversify.

I certainly think that ATM offers better share price value compared with CASH despite its dilution. This may be to the increased risk inherent in ATM being newly listed. Until we get some figures and a flavour for the managements direction I say accumulate the shares but only with your Speculative book (its a tricky area to hedge).

Look forward to reading other peoples ideas on the stock.

[diogenesj] 19/3/2004 15:54

Here, here. Let's hope they both do well.

There's a certain lack of real information here about Moneybox, however. Should I buy it (I hold Cardpoint)? Size is not everything. Does anyone know of any brokers' forecasts for this year and next?

[agincourt] 19/3/2004 15:17

Please

Cardpoint will have a vale and Moneybox will have a value, there is no connection between them.

Let's not even start a silly debate about which is best. I just couldn't stand it.

[bengo] 18/3/2004 21:30

My first time investing in a new placement.
Not the best of days to begin but fingers crossed.

Good luck to everybody.

[innovation99] 18/3/2004 20:18

Ricky9

Cardpoint is expanding as fast as Moneybox! that however does not make it a better buy.

Rather than take my word for it, look at Ambients Accounts over the last 3 years and see the costs associated with Moneybox's rapid expansion to maturity. Then mirror this with Cardpoints rapid expansion programme to date and you hopefully will understand why just expanding rapidly does not make a company share a better buy.

[divina] 18/3/2004 20:06

opss i meant ricky9

[speny] 18/3/2004 16:51

Crazylegs- No I have not, but I did not comment on Cardpoint or ATM and if I did, I would have backed up what I had stated with an arguement, rather than just say ATM is over priced, without explaining why.

[crazylegs140873] 18/3/2004 16:14

speny have you read anything on cardpoint, because if you had you might find ricky9 isn't that far off the mark!

[nilip] 18/3/2004 15:12

speny,

Apologies for the late response but just came back to my desk.
In response to your question, it seems that Mangal & divina have pretty much answered your question...

I am somewhat surprised that ATM has not risen more that current price on the fact that the majority of todays trades are buys...

I think their may be some pricing support going on in the background.

I also believe that many are still to become aware of Moneybox's flotation being today (even I was looking for an epic like MBX and couldn't find it ...ATM is an appropriate epic - but not obvious).

The next few days/weeks will be interesting. IMO.

[speny] 18/3/2004 13:19

Ricky9

If you are going to make comments like the above, at least try and back them up with some reasonable arguement, or you will look at right plum.

[divina] 18/3/2004 12:56

ricky9

Moneybox has five main operating systems:

Moneybox UK: ATM Deployment and management in the UK

Moneybox's UK ATM business was established in 1999 and now processes more ATM transactions in the UK than any other independent deployer. Moneybox has also established itself as a leading provider of managed ATM services to UK banks and building societies.


Moneybox Nederland B.V.: ATM deployment and management in the Netherlands.

Moneybox established its Dutch ATM business in November 2001 in partnership with SNS Bank.


Moneybox Deutschland GmbH: ATM deployment and management in Germany.

Moneybox commenced operations in Germany in July 2002.


Moneybox Payment Processing: supplies and manages cashless payment solutions through its G2 division for corporate clients to support a range of applications including catering and vending. G2 also provides engineering, software and support services to the core Moneybox ATM network in the UK.


Moneybox Security Solutions: Security and access control systems sold through its PAT division

[ricky9] 18/3/2004 12:34

At 65p that would value Moneybox at 130,000000.
That is 3 times current market cap of Cardpoint.
Cardpoint is expanding as fast as moneybox that makes it a much better buy.

[big_cat] 18/3/2004 12:26

Just bought 50,000 at 51.5p - I see the shares trading at 65-70p range by End April!! I base my forecast on the overhead structure of Moneybox compared to Cardpoint, and there is a lot going for Moneybox lean machine.

[mangal] 18/3/2004 11:59

Support for ATM from Citywire AA-rated manager Michael Barnard :
"
This week's float of Moneybox has also given Barnard the chance to buy a stake in a niche market he has fancied for some time. After missing out on shares in Cardpoint before it rose too high he was determined to get some Moneybox shares at float. He thinks it is a business with good solid prospects: 'I don't think its going to fly but its going to be a steady one.' It is providing automatic teller machines (ATMs) for banks and building societies including Bradford & Bingley and also looking to expand overseas.
"

[ricky9] 18/3/2004 11:55

Moneybox are far too expensive,Cardpoint is the one to be in.