Medusa Share Discussion Threads

[deka1] 01/11/2015 10:19

Its back on filter for you gloop,i wont get into a battle of wits with an unarmed man,let the board know when the shrink thinks your cured LOL.

[cp42kx07] 31/10/2015 18:07

One can but hope! If Andrew Maguire is correct then it may prove to be an interesting couple of months.

[atlantic57] 31/10/2015 15:30

Hi Dekal / August i guess that's what makes a market two opposing views of the same situation

[deka1] 31/10/2015 14:37

Atlan hi, its a rigged market, Constantly,none of the old systems like charting can work, even when events occur that would have had an effect in the past , don't influence the price moves more than the manipulation .
The futures trading of the Comex is utterly criminal.
Not just the PM trades either but everything that goes through that despicable comex.

[stevea171] 31/10/2015 12:34

Andrew Maguire audio now released.

In this audio he refers anew to the coming game changing ABX with 11 physical vaulting locations around the world, independent of the Bullion Banks, and an imminent Shanghai Gold Exchange (SGE) gold price fix with trading by Chinese banks carrying over from SGE to ABX where their positions will be anonymous. ABX to operate 23 hrs a day.

How this is seen by GS and about 10 other banks in the Cabal to be unstoppable so as they understand fully the mis-pricing of gold which they and others are responsible for they are now positioning themselves to take the other side in physical and paper to maximise profit in the new world dawning for PM pricing. JPM and HSBC to remain as agents for the CB's defending the existing system for as long as possible before the inevitable break with the 'wash and rinse' cycles and the beginning of gold and silver prices to come into line with market forces.

[deka1] 31/10/2015 12:04

Arja hi thanks for the post, but none of that will have an effect on gold , if gold drops its because the CBs are naked shorting it , as usual, those events in twigs post have nothing to do with it .

[arja] 31/10/2015 09:11

twigg,s thoughts.

Gold

Gold broke medium-term support at $1150/ounce after the latest FOMC statement. Higher interest rates and a stronger Dollar would both weaken demand for gold. Breach warns of a test of the primary level at $1100. A 13-week Twiggs Momentum peak below zero suggests continuation of the primary down-trend.

[arja] 31/10/2015 09:11

twigg,s thoughts.

Gold

Gold broke medium-term support at $1150/ounce after the latest FOMC statement. Higher interest rates and a stronger Dollar would both weaken demand for gold. Breach warns of a test of the primary level at $1100. A 13-week Twiggs Momentum peak below zero suggests continuation of the primary down-trend.

[deka1] 30/10/2015 15:00

Aye Chip, I suspect your right.

[chipperfrd] 30/10/2015 13:51

Following the theme of the last few posts, I note this recent article by GATA which was prompted by a 'gaffe' by an Austrian CB official whilst speaking to a Kitco reporter. It's just more of the same and hardly even news any more. And, of course, nothing will come of it as usual!

[deka1] 30/10/2015 11:41

CP42 thanks for your take,the agents who are front running the the book must be taking profits from the CBs as imo they are the only other players ,that would amount to a payment to these agents as against a legal profit (as in an unrigged game) so imo these agents are really a branch of the CBs albeit operating as an independent , they are all one in the same entity, hence the rotation of the money it takes to keep the fraud going.

Thanks again CP42 , an interesting talk.
BE LUCKY

[cp42kx07] 30/10/2015 11:23

deka1

As I see it, governments / central banks wish to suppress gold in order to shore up their QE'd currencies (gold makes them look bad) but they have no interest in profit per se.

Their agents make money by front-running the orders while the authorities turn a blind eye in exchange for the agents' 'discretion'.

Despite the rigged market we are all playing the futures markets to some degree if we have any exposure to PMs. The consequences of the suppression effect the PoG (physical / paper), PM funds & ETFs, PM explorers / miners.

Unfortunately most people do not appreciate the extent to which markets have been corrupted and this is clearly not an issue that either the US / Euro media or political classes wish to address.

IMO the only way around the problem is either a true separation of the physical and paper markets (no idea how!) or, in the case of gold, the replacement of the dollar by some form of gold-backed currency system.

I have never had much time for conspiracy theories but the behaviour in the financial markets during the past decade is leading me to reflect on my naivety.

[deka1] 30/10/2015 10:10

CP42 hi,i mean the only players in the gold price suppression game,CBs/ Govs or their proxy hedge funds, I mean imo the money they use to suppress the price must just go round in a circle, into the crimex out of the crimex back into the crimex always the same people not winning on the futures trades and not loosing,
just the action of suppressing going on and on to achieve their goal, if i'm right its a zero or near zero sum game, as I said before who else plays the PM futures other than the CBs, or their proxies, governments,those players have just one aim in mind keep the prices down ,why would anyone else play outside of those groups , it don't make sense for anyone else to be in the markets for PMs.
If the CBs are hoarding the gold at a very cheap price, through this constant suppression of the price, the profits of this action would only come to them when the fraud stops and the PM prices go up,and by a large amount.
Your own opinion please would be most welcome.
Thanks Dek

"
And therefore to be overthrown the scheme needs only to be exposed, since when people realize that a market is rigged, they will not take the losing side of the trade."

[atlantic57] 30/10/2015 10:07

Thank you Cp I wish politicians would make transparently honest statements but this is never the case.

Like you when i heard the announcement i thought everyone who was in receipt of up to £5000 worth of dividend income would get it tax free.

The reality is that if you are a higher rate tax payer to the extent that you are a higher rate tax payer will in effect reduce the the tax free amount to zero.

With Politician Smoke and Mirrors go hand in hand.

[cp42kx07] 30/10/2015 09:43

atlantic57

Well spotted. One would have expected the £4k in the example given to be taxed partially at the basic rate (£3k) and partially at the higher rate (£1k) leading to dividend taxation of £550 rather than the actual £1,300.

Of course the result a considerably higher tax take on dividend income. Having forced cautious investors out of savings accounts through ZIRP they are now sitting ducks.

[cp42kx07] 30/10/2015 09:27

deka1

I'm not clear when you ask "how can IT show profit" - do you mean gold or MML or investors?

The points made about possible government actions following a reset are (IMO) very real. Confiscation or forced sale at a government set price, 'windfall' taxes, asset appropriation etc are not the rainbow's end of which dreams are made!

[atlantic57] 30/10/2015 07:30

I just want to mention that the £5000 tax`free dividend allowance is not what it appears.
'

This the governments detailed guidance.



I have a non-dividend income of £40,000, and receive dividends of £9,000 outside of an ISA”

Of the £40,000 non-dividend income, £11,000 is covered by the Personal Allowance, leaving £29,000 to be taxed at basic rate.

This leaves £3,000 of income that can be earned within the basic rate limit before the higher rate threshold is crossed. The Dividend Allowance covers this £3,000 first, leaving £2,000 of Allowance to use in the higher rate band. All of this £5,000 dividend income is therefore covered by the Allowance and is not subject to tax.

In essence to the extent that your total income exceeds the basic rate tax band you will loose the tax`free status of the first £5000 of dividend income.

[deka1] 29/10/2015 21:41

CP42 thanks,one question ,how can it show profit until it ends and changes value?

[cp42kx07] 29/10/2015 19:23

Further to my post 35094 (and apologies to those who are already familiar with GATA), the following is an excerpt from a fascinating speech on gold market manipulation given by Chris Powell in Munich on 09/12/14:

Why does all this matter? How might it end?

It matters because the rigging of the gold market is the rigging that facilitates the rigging of all markets -- part of a much broader scheme by which a secretive and unelected elite in the United States and Western Europe controls the value of all capital, labor, goods, and services in the world -- controls the value of everything and thereby impairs or destroys all markets and democracy itself everywhere and obstructs humanity's progress.

This is an utterly totalitarian and parasitic system. It is also just the latest manifestation of the everlasting war of the financial class against the producing class, only it is hidden well enough that the producing class hasn't yet figured it out.

This system might end in various ways.

First it's a question of world politics at the highest levels.

The system may end at the insistence of the developing world with an official worldwide revaluation of gold and gold's formal restoration to the international monetary system and the demotion of the U.S. dollar.

The system may end when one country pulls the plug on it, exchanging U.S. dollars and government bonds for more gold -- real metal -- than is available, or when ordinary investor demand exhausts supply, which is more or less how the London Gold Pool ended in 1968.

Or the system may end as part of a plan by the major central banks to avert the catastrophic debt deflation that now threatens the world.

For example, a study in 2006 by the Scottish economist Peter Millar concluded that to avert such a catastrophic debt deflation, central banks would need to raise the gold price by a factor of seven to 20 times in order to reliquefy themselves and devalue their currencies and society's debts generally:



In May 2012 the U.S. economists and investment fund managers Lee Quaintance and Paul Brodsky published a report speculating that central banks likely are already redistributing gold reserves among themselves in preparation for just such an upward revaluation of gold and gold's return as formal backing for currencies:



The current system's end is an arithmetical question, a question of how much real gold is retained by the central banks participating in the price suppression scheme. Some metal is always draining away to support the gold derivatives system, and it seems lately that more is draining away every year than is being mined. How much do the gold-suppressing central banks really still have left? How much gold has been put into the market through swaps and leases?

Central banks refuse to say. For since the control of gold is the control of markets and the control of the valuation of everything, the amount, location, and disposition of central bank gold reserves are state secrets far more sensitive than the amount, location, and disposition of nuclear weapons.

The end of central bank market rigging is a question of education and publicity, a question of whether central banks that are not part of the gold price suppression scheme and investors alike will ever realize that as much as 90 percent of the world's investment gold, supposedly being held in trust for its owners, has been, to put it politely, oversubscribed. That is, the gold may not exist. If there is ever such a realization and delivery is demanded, gold will rise to multiples of its current price.

While that prospect excites gold investors, will governments let them keep the resulting extraordinary gains, or will governments impose windfall profits taxes or even try to confiscate gold?

If the gold price soars, will governments let mining companies keep taking metal out of the ground at current royalty rates? Will governments even let private companies keep mining gold at all?

On the other hand, if there is no general realization of the fraud of "paper gold" and central bank intervention in markets, gold price suppression and the destruction of markets generally may go on forever.

Central banks are formidable enemies because of their power to create infinite money and debt. But that power is not their biggest advantage in the gold suppression scheme and the scheme to defeat markets and democracy generally.

For the scheme cannot work without deception, surreptitiousness, and misunderstanding.

And therefore to be overthrown the scheme needs only to be exposed, since when people realize that a market is rigged, they will not take the losing side of the trade.

That's why the biggest advantage of central banks here is not their power of money and debt creation but rather the complicity of the financial news media and the gold mining industry itself.

Mainstream financial journalists will not press the vital questions. Indeed, the first rule of mainstream financial journalism is: Never put a critical question to a central bank and report the inadequate answer. The second rule of mainstream financial journalism is that the first rule goes double in regard to gold.

The journalistic questions for central banks could begin very simply:

1) Are central banks trading secretly in the gold market and other markets, directly or through intermediaries, or not?

2) If central banks are secretly trading in the gold market and other markets, directly or through intermediaries, does this trading have policy purposes or is it just for fun?

3) And if this secret trading does have policy purposes, what are they and why are they too being kept secret?

Then the answers from central banks could be compared with the documentation GATA has compiled.

As for the gold mining industry, it seems unaware of the monetary nature of its product and the way the price of its product is suppressed. Further, the gold mining industry has been intimidated by its governments and its bankers, all agents of central banks, and has consented to die quietly.

A link to the complete speech:

[cp42kx07] 29/10/2015 18:50

On the subject of gold market manipulation here is the latest update (28/10/15) from Chris Powell at GATA: