M&g Share Discussion Threads

[woodhawk] 07/9/2021 13:27

I note that apart from Nat Insurance rises today - there is also an extra 1.25% tax on dividends (obv no effect on ISA'd shares).

[gary1966] 07/9/2021 13:17

Added just under 12400 this morning and that is my lot for the time being as I don't have any more money. :-)

[karv1] 07/9/2021 12:31

The market at the moment is a mess But on dividends, LGEN will take 5 years on their dividend return policy to catch up with MNG percentage, and that's if MNG does not raise their dividend, PHNX has not really changed their returns much over the last 5 years if I have read it correctly. At least with MNG with its limited time on the stock market the dividend has gone up. Who knows where the share price will be in 2 to 3 years' time when you take into account their 2.2 billion self-generating funds for 2022.
The target of 2.6 billion by 2023 is around 55% of the companies value. With a total surplus of more than 5.4 billion which is more than the company is worth. Which in my view makes the dividend safe as you can get in these times. On a negative viewpoint, the 3.2 billion debt which has high interest over the long term will cost MNG around 160m per year. I do hope the debt is slowly reduced over time when possible. The 750 million yearly operating profit should be fine to cover debt and dividends....................
Everything in end will depend on inflows and outflows nothing else will really matter until then, we just have to sit on our hands and wait.

[aleman] 07/9/2021 11:53

Pre-Covid but illustrates the point well enough.



Over the last ten years the total return for the FTSE 100 was +103.98% with dividends reinvested, or a 7.38% annualised return. This is despite annual returns being mixed, with a range from a low of -8.73% to a high of +19.07%.

Looking at all the possible ten-year holding periods since the FTSE 100’s inception shows an average annual return of +8.43%.

The worst return over ten years was a +3.20% return (+0.32% annualised) and the highest return a +403.12% return (+17.53% annualised, between 31 December 1988 and 31 December 1998).

[gary1966] 07/9/2021 11:44

They can be traded a little around the edges to create capital gain though P1945

[porsche1945] 07/9/2021 11:40

Almost 9 pc yield. Alarm bells ringing. It’s cheap for reasons a lot of yield hunters on here dont realise. People bang on about L and G and Phnx and aviva and direct line etc etc as well but the shares never go anywhere, same price they were years ago, much much better returns buying growth over yield, which seems to just offer capital destruction on U.K. indexes, ftse at sub 7200, same as 20 years ago, pathetic.

[woodhawk] 07/9/2021 10:43

I prefer to buy my shares cheap, Pander45. You don't seem to have got the hang of this.

[pander45] 07/9/2021 08:07

Didn't want to frighten you woods with the actual figure.

[woodhawk] 06/9/2021 23:06

Ooooh, that's a bold prediction!! LOL.

[pander45] 06/9/2021 22:20

Continues to look a bit weak, i fancy sub 200.

[williamcooper104] 06/9/2021 12:53

That's what I thought too; and with large LGEN and PHNX holdings I have enough concentration risk Wouldn't be surprised to find MNG bid for; so can understand the attraction of picking up the yield while waiting for that to happen And the yield is of course enticing

[riverman77] 06/9/2021 11:49

Agree this look cheap but it's all relative isn't it. LGEN looks much better value in my view given superior growth prospects and trading on similar PE. Same could be said for PHNX.

[karv1] 06/9/2021 11:27

Hi, Pete, I would like these answers as well. My best guess is they move money to yields like 1 year us treasury yield and total returns are calculated on June 30th prices compared with when they moved it there, also if they move assets/currency to different currency compared to the dollar with the movement between them. making the difference. or pound to dollar etc.
That's how I understand it with a lot of guessing it's probably wrong though.
Two people, I have seen that seem to be very knowledgeable on insurance and solvency funds are WBA1 use to see him a lot on AV chat on here and JATW on ISE boards both of these people come across as very knowledgeable on facts relating to these type of companies. if you come across them.

[peterbill] 06/9/2021 10:50

Thanks for your input karv1 ... I'm a holder and looking to add more.

Can someone explain how this hedging strategy works? Extract from thier interim results ... under Managers Statement

Total capital generation during the period was £869 million (30 June 2020: £(202) million), taking our shareholder Solvency II coverage ratio to 198% (31 December 2020: 182%). This demonstrates our continued focus on proactively and efficiently generating capital which includes our strategy of hedging the impact of market volatility on the Solvency II balance sheet.

However, this hedging strategy to protect our Solvency II balance sheet has contributed to an IFRS loss after tax of £248 million as markets recovered and yields increased in the period, reversing gains in the first half of the previous year when we recognised an IFRS profit after tax of £826 million.

[karv1] 06/9/2021 10:10

I think around 3.2 billion in debt. £5.4bn surplus Own Funds. of which Cash and liquid assets are at £1.7bn They have a target of self-generation of funds of 2.6 billion by 2023, on a company valued at 5.3 billion.....
On my limited knowledge. I suspect most of it is down to a company running on its own legs for the first time in a very long time, so there is very little on charts to give big investors confidence, but from what I can see it is a no brainer buy in my view.

[tornado12] 06/9/2021 09:34

What are the main reasons that are driving the low PE and very high dividend ? Is it linked to debt ? I am interested to divest into MNG but the numbers look compelling . Seem really too good !

[keyno] 04/9/2021 17:52

I'm put in mind of the Grand Old Duke of York nursery rhyme. He marched them up to the top of the hill and he marched them down again.

So here we are, back to my ex-div buy price in March. Coulda, shoulda sold ................ probably. Sigh......

[luderitz] 04/9/2021 13:35

Ditto here as well.

[scobak] 04/9/2021 09:47

That 9% figure is deafening me. Need to top up. However watching closely as I have no idea when price will bottom out.

[dope007] 03/9/2021 16:28

Just added some. Trading below NAV and happy to hold onto them longer term

[anhar] 03/9/2021 16:14

...This looks a no-brainer to me.

Yes, that yield for a big and well known cap was remarkable, even for this risky industry, and has improved after the recent fall.

Howver I'm not convinced it's a complete no-brainer because of the industry risk I mentioned so I would not bet big on this share alone. But I am sufficiently convinced to hold it in my income port in the appropriate proportion and thereby spread the risk amongst many different sectors.

[emptyend] 03/9/2021 15:32

Interesting point about fund management businesses......I'm told that M&G funds have been "out of favour" with IFAs for a while but, in fact, their performance has improved with most now being top quartile. If that is the case - and continues - money will come back to M&G. In addition, asset price inflation will help FUM numbers and they are expecting to offload the legacy insurance business, which should make them a lot nimbler.And a 9% yield to start with.This looks a no-brainer to me.

[skinny] 03/9/2021 15:14

Certainly looking oversold.

[adejuk] 03/9/2021 15:10

there isn't a saying about a bull with little brain - that i know of