Lloyds Grp 9.25 Discussion Threads

[zangdook] 16/11/2021 07:57

I can understand throwing in the towel if there were only going to be a couple of PIs and a horse on the share register after the tender closes, but if the institutions don't fold en masse that won't be the case. ISTM Lloyds are well aware they can't and won't get rid of these prefs altogether, so they're just trying to mop up any weak holders out there.

[p@] 16/11/2021 07:55

Glavey thnx

[glavey] 16/11/2021 04:54

In general the offer is quite mean. It is possible that they are acknowledging that there is a now a general distrust of their ethics, thus making it purposefully shabby whilst simultaneously rekindling fear. If there was intention to dispel this distrust they could have simply made the offer price just a little higher to indicate goodwill. It might send a deserved signal if there was emphatic unanimous rejection, with institutional holders taking the lead.

[glavey] 15/11/2021 17:13

Pierre, You appear to be acting in haste (see my earlier post to you). I suggest you should at least wait until the results of the early closing (institutional) offer are known before giving instructions as a retail holder. I don't see the point to surrender early if it leaves you looking for other fixed income investments to replace the same. (Note: You can withdraw / amend your broker instruction if you act within their deadline.)


19 November 2021 1.00 p.m. London time = General Expiration Deadline (the 'Institutional' deadline)
22 November 2021 = Announcement of Results following the General Expiration Deadline

9 December 2021 1.00 p.m., London time = Retail-Only Expiration Deadline
10 December 2021 = Announcement of Results following the Retail-Only Expiration Deadline

[p@] 15/11/2021 16:20

what is position with cgt? are they classed as bonds or prefs?

[pierre oreilly] 15/11/2021 14:05

Oh well, got notified by idealing and have accepted (or at least instructed them to accept on my behalf). Not too tardy a performance, 29/06/2009 bought at 73.5p, and had a 14% divi for 12 years. Will miss the income though - I've still got lots of cash (earning fa interest) in my account from an index linked gilt earlier in the year.

I expect any fixed income is pretty expensive atm. Any ideas? (full of premium bonds for both of us so that's a no go).

[future financier] 15/11/2021 11:22

p@ - see below

19 November 2021 General Expiration Deadline
1.00 p.m. London Final deadline for receipt by the Institutional
time Receiving Agent of all Tender Instructions
in order for Institutional Holders
to be able to participate in the
Offers. Retail*
Deadline for receipt by the Receiving
Agent of any Tender Instructions
from Retail Holders if such Retail
Holders wish to be eligible to receive
payment on the General Settlement
Date in respect of Preference Shares
accepted for purchase by the Offeror.

[p@] 15/11/2021 11:12

From Lloy!RNS -

Purchase Price
Description of Aggregate Liquidation (including accrued and Amount subject to the
Preference Shares ISIN Preference Outstanding unpaid dividends)(1) Offer
------------------------ ------------- ------------------------ ------------------------ -------------------------
GBP198,065,600 6.475% GB00B3KSB568 GBP56,472,211 112.050% Any and all
Non-Cumulative
Preference Shares(2)
(the "6.475% Preference
Shares")
GBP300,000,000 9.25% GB00B3KS9W93 GBP299,987,729 167.250% Any and all
Non-Cumulative
Irredeemable Preference
Shares
(the "9.25% Preference
Shares")
GBP100,000,000 9.75% GB00B3KSB238 GBP55,740,886 174.200% Any and all
Non-Cumulative
Irredeemable Preference
Shares
(the "9.75% Preference
Shares")

[p@] 15/11/2021 11:06

Glavey-I thought someone said only 4 days left?

Thnx red

[glavey] 15/11/2021 10:58

P@, there is no rush. Best wait and see the result of the 'early' tender before considering further. If the NWBD tender is indicative, takeup may be limited.

[redartbmud] 15/11/2021 10:49

RNS 10 November under the Lloyds ticker lloy

[p@] 15/11/2021 10:38

How comes no RNS?

[redartbmud] 15/11/2021 10:37

Phoned H-L first thing to chivvy them up. They aren't even in the parade ring yet, let alone heading towards the start line.

[p@] 15/11/2021 10:30

Just phoned Equinitti the registrars ,she said they don.t know anything about the offer ,she will ring me back!!!!!!

[glavey] 15/11/2021 09:42

P@, Yes, indeed, during the GFC. That was exceptional of course. Divis were suspended for 2 years. I held various.

[glavey] 15/11/2021 09:29

MRF, Thanks, but it was this sentence within your post I was enquiring about: "Andrew Bailey reviewed the situation when [then?] and felt it was ok so long as they notified the market correctly." Can you point me to anything which evidences that please, because I'm not aware any such comment or statement from Andrew Bailey or the FCA?

[p@] 15/11/2021 09:24

Glavely-These were £40 in2009 when I bought-

es
blobby20 Jan '09 - 10:27 - 5 of 1292
0 0 0
% Yields at different prices:

Price (p) Yield %
85 10.9
80 11.6
75 12.3
70 13.2
65 14.2
60 15.4
55 16.8
50 18.5
45 20.5
40 23.1

or maybe 0% if they can't/won't pay, which I guess is what some people must be thinking. Post now edited to add extra rows at the bottom :-( Trades now going through at prices much lower than that quoted ie 50p and 47p.

p@20 Jan '09 - 14:02 - 6 of 1292 Edit
0 0 0
Just bought some of these,hope they are now turning.

[glavey] 15/11/2021 09:15

Pierre & Future, You may want to wait and see which way the wind is blowing before you make a decision. The NWBD tender got a very low take up despite being more generous.

Future, no, not 4 days. There are two closing dates, targeted for institutional and retail respectively. Suggest wait for the result of the first before thinking about the second.

William, delisting is not likely I feel (it's not suggested), but who cares if you just want some long term F.I. in your portfolio and are just sitting collecting the divi. Besides, F.I. brokers will still be likely to trade OTC.

[my retirement fund] 15/11/2021 09:08

Glavey you just need to google it, plenty of info on the debacle. My best guess is they will rush this offer through taking out most of the main holders then delist it then cancel it quietly at par in due course as its pretty obvious no ordinary lloyds shareholder will care less.

[glavey] 15/11/2021 09:02

Holts,
"I think that was Bailey's response to Aviva trying to shaft their pref holders"

Not my understanding. Aviva had to retract and compensate (where appropriate) not only their own holders but also holders of other 'pref' securities who sold in the created panic, AFAIIA.

Following which Andrew Bailey (FCA) issued a general "Dear CEO" letter. What is unclear is the responses (or not) to that...

Do you have anything further? MRF's post suggested he might have... I'd be interested.

[glavey] 15/11/2021 08:49

nickieg,
"CNBC analysts on 3 Nov were suggesting a 1.25% BoE base rate by end 2022, a full 1.1% above the current rate. Just a 0.5% increase in LLPC yield which is less than half the predicted movement in base rate, would suggest a drop in LLPC share price to around £153.50, or -8.3%."

These instruments were Halifax / HBOS preference shares which Lloyds converted to their own in 2009. Prior to this, when interest rates were much higher (around 5%) these still traded at decent premium to par. Unfortunately the LLPC charts don't go back beyond 2009 as that's when the LLPC security was issued and it's difficult to find the historical prices before that but if my memory serves me correctly it was around 160-170p (yield 5.6% appx.). The only thing that wasn't built in at that time was the degree of distrust Lloyds has now afforded itself.

If you applied your concept historically going back to, say, 2006 they would have traded close to par then, putting the yield at circa 9% (and other similar instruments would also need to reflect that). In real terms 5.6% yield was probably slightly better than typical Building Soc. savings interest at the time. (One would also need to consider the tax position.)

There aren't many of this kind of fixed interest instruments left now that are available to 'retail'.

[p@] 15/11/2021 08:43

I hold certificated .and have heard nothing....