Lloyds Grp 9.25 Discussion Threads

[cwa1] 05/7/2020 12:21

nb, if I may ask, which are the two prefs you ended up buying after your due diligence?I assume that NWBD was one, which was the other? Cheers.

[nicholasblake] 04/7/2020 07:45

Jack, The great thing is that the general market hasn't rumbled the superior terms of NWBD and it can still be bought at a very good yield. They have to call a pref class meeting to return all the money to pref holders and cancel the shares. At which point £2 would be very nice. Neither Lloyds nor Aviva have that protection.

[glavey] 04/7/2020 06:32

So were the Aviva prefs. Sometimes 'people' get to have their perspective challenged.

[cousin jack] 03/7/2020 22:54

"I went through the articles of about 15 prefs and bought two, which have protections.
Not sure the readers of the board want to mislead each other the Lloyds prefs are safe. If they were they'd be £2!"

If so LLPC would yield c. 4.6%. Applying that yield to the two prefs you say you've bought as they have protection would imply they are already at that sort of yield. I imagine that one of them is NWBD and it's nowhere near that. Seems a flawed bit of thinking to me. Surely the Lloyds yield is in line with the others because people don't regard the risk of cancellation/return of capital as very likely.

[westcountryboy] 18/6/2020 21:59

A very incompetent shorting gang as well! Hope they will leave us in peace now.

[pierre oreilly] 18/6/2020 09:58

Any form of llpc holder ripoff (whatever term used) is mega unlikely imv, but if it was attempted, then it would end up in court and the result of that is unknown (as all court cases are). So people saying this or that can or can't happen, even if its tmf posters deciding (rofl!) really are completely out of touch. There are so many pretty obvious reasons why it won't be attempted imv.

It looks to me like a shorting gang have been and gone here - occam's razor and all that, hopefully not paranoia. Look at the aggressive language sometimes used.

[alphorn] 18/6/2020 09:15

Have been interested in following the debate, although there is no definitive answer.
So perhaps need a line under it now.

[investor73] 18/6/2020 09:12

nicholasblake

If you're not invested in these,why are you wasting your time.

I don't think you have a day job. You are filtered.

[nicholasblake] 18/6/2020 08:44

Well put, McCabe. Lloyds can do the full return and cancellation but may not think the press is worth it. Mind you, 9% on £300m is £27m p.a. saving, which is not to be sneezed at. Current price reflects market assessment of balance of risk. You takes your choice and pays your money.

[mccabe_jg] 18/6/2020 06:25

This cancelling of the prefs or the more correct term being 'return of capital' in the Companies Act was discussed ad finitum on the Lemon Fool website. The overall conclusion was that most of the prefs that did not contain specific exclusion clauses in their prospectus, could in fact be redeemed at par, although this would be subject to a legal challenge. As you all probably aware this return of capital was attempted by Aviva. The result was a barrage of very negative publicity which resulted in CEO resigning, they very quickly backtracked. I believe the capital in LLPC and LLPD is around £300 million. This is a very small figure in banking terms. It is difficult to understand why Lloyd's would attempt this, given the potential pitfalls as shown by Aviva. The risk/reward is just not worth it. I think the share price reflects this in comparison with NWBD, which is very well protected.

[nicholasblake] 17/6/2020 14:59

The prefs count as capital just now. I seem to recall that only lasts another three years, at which point they are extortionately expensive debt.
I went through the articles of about 15 prefs and bought two, which have protections.
Not sure the readers of the board want to mislead each other the Lloyds prefs are safe. If they were they'd be £2!
But I'm quite content to keep mum because I do have a day job!.

[glavey] 17/6/2020 14:55

investor73
17 Jun '20 - 13:05 - 1213

"...he said, according to reports."

It's not even a quote, investor 73, just hearsay.

[investor73] 17/6/2020 14:48

nicholasblake


If it was that simple they would have cancelled them ages ago. If you are not invested in them what's your problem?

[nicholasblake] 17/6/2020 14:27

Investor73 the six month City rule applies in particular to corporate actions. Check out e.g. Takeover Code.
Given everything which has happened since statement it is of no value whatsoever.
But then hope does spring eternal!

[alphorn] 17/6/2020 14:22

I shall continue with my LLPE's.

[investor73] 17/6/2020 14:21

"In the City such statements have a six month currency"

For profit forecasts may be, not something like this.

[nicholasblake] 17/6/2020 13:56

In the City such statements have a six month currency. After that all bets off.

[investor73] 17/6/2020 13:05

"Absolutely no plans to cancel these irredeemable preference shares through a reduction in capital"

Will they really do that after this clarification?

They'll end up paying higher compensation than Aviva if they tried that IMO.

[nicholasblake] 17/6/2020 12:52

What a paraprosdokian!

[investor73] 17/6/2020 12:36

Lloyds preference shares rally as bank breaks silence
By Daniel Grote 26 Apr, 2018

"Lloyds chief financial officer George Culmer yesterday broke the bank's silence on the investments, which have been hit by the fallout from Aviva's move.

'Absolutely no discussion on these and absolutely no plans to cancel these irredeemable preference shares through a reduction in capital,' "

hxxps://citywire.co.uk/funds-insider/news/lloyds-preference-shares-rally-as-bank-breaks-silence/a1114242

[tbow112] 17/6/2020 08:11

"Irredeemable does have a different meaning in other contexts but that's not relevant."

Not relevant ?? The other context just happens to be the document that was used to "sell" the shares to me and to the Scottish court.

[glavey] 17/6/2020 06:58

Is my memory correct? Wasn't LBGs response to the FCA's 'Dear CEO' letter something particularly vague along the lines of they had no plans to 'cancel' (or suchlike term) at this time?
(This time being around 2 years ago)

Those worried might switch to NWBD.

[pierre oreilly] 16/6/2020 22:44

My Retirement Fund16 Jun '20 - 22:38 - 1207 of 1208
0 0 0
Look out chaps Pierre has appeard! A clear sign doom has arrived!




? wtf?

[my retirement fund] 16/6/2020 22:38

Look out chaps Pierre has appeard! A clear sign doom has arrived!

[pierre oreilly] 16/6/2020 22:14

Seems very strange to me that suddenly and out of the blue, several posters have decided to warn llpc holders of the very high risk they have always apparently faced without realising and without disaster! What prompted all these dire warnings which have suddenly appeared on a board which up to now was lucky to get one post a month?