Leeds Share Discussion Threads

[deswalker] 15/1/2009 22:45

Arthur,

Good point re bank influence & divis etc. I'd not thought of that angle. I've already requested my Letter of Rep and intend to be at the AGM next month. Questions such as these need asking.

Hopefully the Hemmers expansion ensures that it is now of sufficient scale to be regarded as totally independent of the parent. It carries its own long term debt funded by its own cashflow etc. This would make any sale of Hemmers a much cleaner transaction than when it was smaller and more interwoven with the parent IMO. The chinese subsidiary angle may add to these possibilities in due course but obviously I'm not holding my breath.

I've lost track of what's going on with DWSN.

It is promising that there doesn't appear to be any small sellers around. I'll happily forego any further uplift in NAV per share to avoid any further control by the Directors.

I'm still pretty optimistic about things.

[arthur_lame_stocks] 15/1/2009 21:44

Des

As I see it, it gives the bank influence over the running of the company. For example maybe they're putting pressue on the Swedes not to pay a dividend but to keep the cash in the business to protect their collateral.

Anyway I wonder how trading is holding up? The GBP/EUR rate will have a positive impact on turnover and profits and net assets at Hemmers, but also increase net debt which is all Euro denominated.

We haven't had any share buybacks yet this year either, I wonder if that's anything to do with talks at DWSN?

[deswalker] 01/1/2009 13:03

Arthur - To be honest I don't understand the bank security issue. As far as I can tell they've placed their holdings as collateral against personal bank loans. That's not a problem for me but perhaps I'm wrong ?

I see your point re buying them influence at EET. Questions will need to be asked at the AGM.

[arthur_lame_stocks] 01/1/2009 12:29

I wasn't too happy with the recent news that the Swedes have used their shareholding as security on the bank debt. Seems like a conflict of interest to me considering they have a controlling stake (or as good as).

Results were ok, but would have been a lot better if it wasn't for EET. I'm also concerned that EET has been refinanced by a company controlled by the Swedes. Did we just buy them influence but got nothing out of it ourselves?

I've been told that Peter Gyllenhammar has to watch himself a bit because he's sailed close to the wind with stock market rules in the past, i'm not sure he's behaving very well at Leeds.

[deswalker] 01/1/2009 11:20

Thks Arthur. All being well I shall be attending this year.

I was on holiday for the results. A mixed bag but on the whole I wasn't too dissatisfied.

Hemmers is being developed nicely with the expansion being financed on good terms just before this sort of thing got really tough to do. The Chinese expansion should also pay dividends and possibly pave the way for a takeover from the Chinese at a later date.

DWSN investment also looks to be a decent move but clearly there are risks.

EET a fiasco.

Higher net-debt than I was expecting due to Hemmers expansion.

There's enough for management to be getting on with between Hemmers and DWSN without anything else. Let's hope they realise this.

Fingers crossed the Chinese interest in DWSN decides to widen their view and consider a bid for LDSG. Obviously I'm not holding my breath though.

Des

[arthur_lame_stocks] 01/1/2009 10:04

Des

The 108th AGM is at 12.00 on Wed 25th Feb at BDO's offices, 1 Bridgewater Place, Water Lane, Leeds, LS11 5RU.

Happy new year everybody. What price for Leeds this time next?

[deswalker] 31/12/2008 11:13

Contrary to yesterday's RNS the AR is still not available on the website. Does anyone have an AGM date, time and place please ?

[arthur_lame_stocks] 17/12/2008 00:19

I guess we don't know to what extent Hemmers was held back by the costs of expansion. Hemmers should also be well placed to capitalise on further failures amongst their competitors.

Leeds should also benefit from the recent substantial EUR/GBP exchange rate movement.

Let's hope they can do something decent with Dawsons.

[jonak] 16/12/2008 23:59

A lot better than my worst fears... the revenue growth is very good, good foundation for profits next year

[bracke] 16/12/2008 14:25

Arthur

Thank you for the results summary.

[cg1953] 16/12/2008 09:02

what a mess this company is.its a disgrace.
a third party bid for DWSN could help.

[arthur_lame_stocks] 16/12/2008 08:04

Results out. A little bit disappointing, but then they usually are. EPS 1.4p. Would have been about 2p but for the write down of EET.

Good sales growth at Hemmers, but not profit growth. I guess that should benefit from the strong Euro next year, although will probably be affected by weak trading.

Net debt now, not net cash, although working capital movements may reverse this.

No dividend.

Go to sleep until next year when we get more of the same?

[arthur_lame_stocks] 13/12/2008 11:39

So I wonder how much of the new equity we'll be putting in?

[arthur_lame_stocks] 13/12/2008 11:36

I've just noticed the EET news. Guess who's behind Scribona! Perhaps we'll salvage something from that after all.

[arthur_lame_stocks] 07/12/2008 22:24

Hemmers have quite a smart new website. I didn't know they had a subsidiary in China!

Anyway, results should be soon, let's hope the Swedes haven't done anything else crazy with our cash.

[jonak] 05/12/2008 22:13

I'm expecting mid to end of December; Last years annual report was 'written' on 18th Dec (date stamp on the pdf on the web site).

[arthur_lame_stocks] 03/12/2008 19:03

I wonder when the results are due?

[stewjames] 21/11/2008 00:24

"Small caps are going to stay cheap for a long time IMO. Why mess around hoping the market notices a particular small cap when one can invest in megacaps on similar ratings or another asset class that has more utility (ie not dead money). If PG thinks that buying stakes in micro-caps is the way forward in this market then he must be bonkers."

The megacaps may be cheap, but I doubt they're now or will ever be on similar ratings. Unless you can point me in the direction of several valued at or below cash in the bank on PEs of 5?

Also, it must be a hell of a lot easier to obtain large stakes at the moment than usual.

[jonak] 20/11/2008 21:56

but this is one of my best performing shares this year...
:-(

[deswalker] 19/11/2008 22:21

Well I'm hoping that this stock market crash might just bring management to their senses and make them realise the value of cash in their pockets. It's certainly done that to me and none of us are getting any younger.

Small caps are going to stay cheap for a long time IMO. Why mess around hoping the market notices a particular small cap when one can invest in megacaps on similar ratings or another asset class that has more utility (ie not dead money). If PG thinks that buying stakes in micro-caps is the way forward in this market then he must be bonkers. My only other micro-cap is CLV which I like for the long term. I won't be buying any more.

The more I think of it the more I like the idea of restructuring DWSN and then selling Hemmers into the stable. It could be the perfect route to monetising Hemmers over the medium term. LDSG could even accept new DWSN shares in payment for Hemmers if a way around the 30% rule could be agreed. I may mention it at the AGM to gauge reaction.

[arthur_lame_stocks] 19/11/2008 21:52

I don't suppose we're going to see any real action until they've finished buying back shares which could be a year or so away. I can sort of understand buying into DWSN because at least it's a strategic stake, but why ponce about with EET. Are we going to end up as some kind of investment trust of bombed out naff stocks? Gyllenhammar's record is a bit hit and miss and i'd rather I could choose which ones I followed him into.

[deswalker] 19/11/2008 20:10

Yes, good news for DWSN if it goes through. If it does we'll have seen some good progress there since LDSG bought in (Dorma and now the yarns business sold). The DWSN share price doesn't reflect the progress being made but then that's true across the entire market right now.

Shame about EET. What a fiasco. Hopefully it will be a lesson learned for management ?

Could DWSN be a home for Hemmers one day ? I'll hang on to any pipe-dream to try and release the value here :) DWSN sells yarns, DWSN buys Hemmers, LDSG distributes the cash and is left holding 29% of DWSN as its sole investment for sale at a later date.

Seems eminently sensible to me but I ain't holding my breath.

[arthur_lame_stocks] 19/11/2008 19:57

Anybody see the DWSN news today. I hope they can offload the pension fund with it. Even if they have to let the business go for a few million quid.

By the way, anybody here want to own up to being the Douglass Gourlay that bought 4% of Voller? That's a bold punt I reckon.

[arthur_lame_stocks] 12/11/2008 18:13

I see that there's more bad news from EET, it looks like a total loss is a certainty. I can't help fearing that when we get the results next month that we'll discover that loads more of our cash has been invested in dodgy shares which we could just as easily buy ourselves if we had the cash which the company is sitting on.