Kingspan Share Discussion Threads

[lbo] 10/3/2009 12:07

Many businesses are in danger of being dragged down by their owners' personal debts according to Brendan Waters of Mazars.





Murtagh first became involved with Howard Holdings in 1998. He spotted the opportunity that was available to the company, and now he is a 40% shareholder and a non-executive director. The company is involved in €4bn of developments across Europe, not least of which is the giant Atlantic Quarter in Cork's docklands development – the largest development project ever undertaken in the region at a cost of €1bn. In November 2008, it was announced that Howard Holdings was investing €300m to redevelop an island in the Polish port of Szczecin into a new city quarter.

[lbo] 05/3/2009 19:20

"I predict"

Lets hope your prediction on this is better then the one you gave on Anglo Irish bank! They are dangerous words in the current climate IMHO. Any thoughts on the news that 7% of the company shares were being used as security for personal loans? Lets say the share price was €18-19 when the loans were given so 7% of €3bn is €210m and lets say a LTV of 50% so loans of circa €100m now only have security of only €25m. Sounds like an Anglo or Irish Nationwide type loan during the bubble to me. Is this just not another form of debt? Is it possible a bank now has a hold over circa 20% of the company shares at todays valuation?



Kingspan directors, including founders Eugene and Brendan Murtagh and current chief executive Gene Murtagh are "under no pressure to sell shares" after it emerged that they pledged nearly eight per cent of the public company against personal bank loans. Those shares were worth close to €103m four months ago, last Friday the 12.2 million shares were valued at just €27m. Two years ago, 12.2 million shares would have been worth close to €270m.

Kingspan chief executive Gene Murtagh put up 1.1 million shares as security against bank loans. This represents almost his entire shareholding. Murtagh has exercised shares at prices of well above the current market price, according to filings.

Kingspan chairman Eugene Murtagh pledged five million shares as security against loans. Those shares are now worth just €11.5m, having been worth €42m in September or as much as €110m at the top of the market. Apart from his investment in Kingspan, he is also involved in the aviation, property and hotel sector. He bought the luxury five-star Hempel Hotel Group, which owns hotels in London and Amsterdam. His Glenmansion property firm has registered charges with IIB, AIB and BoI. The firm, which is involved in property in Edinburgh, took out a €5.2m loan with AIB in 2006. It is not due to be repaid until 2018, according to company filings.

Brendan Murtagh pledged his entire shareholding against bank loans. Those shares are now worth almost €12m, having been valued at up to €113m at the peak

[djderry] 04/3/2009 22:50

I predict the recovery will begin on the 3rd January,2011.

[djderry] 04/3/2009 22:49

Do I detect the 'curse of LBO' about to be cast?(Is debt not being reduced? Also,more and more 'old build' houses may get insulated if citizens/governments wish to reduce carbon emmisions.)

[lbo] 03/3/2009 15:21

"the next boom"

Perhaps that will just be the sound of the bailiff at the door! 75% of sales come from new build and I think its optimistic, to say the least, to expect that to pick up anytime soon when we have not even seen any sign of the UK or Irish economies stabilising yet. Add in net debt of circa €300m and you have to wonder if they will not be close to breaching banking covenants at some stage down the road!

[djderry] 02/3/2009 22:45

Very much as management predicted and still making profits,157 million pre-exceptionals.We hunker down and await the next boom,probably starting in 2011.

[lbo] 02/3/2009 12:17

Kingspan Group Plc (KSP ID) dropped 10.2 cents, or 4.6 percent, to 2.11 euros. Europe's largest maker of flooring and insulation panels said it won't pay a final dividend and may close more plants after full-year profit fell 77 percent.

[lbo] 25/2/2009 13:05

I am more intrigued by the appointment of the same non executive director as Irish Nationwide appointed. Just a conicidence or is it related to post 37?



Kitchen signed to Kingspan board

appointments

Kingspan has signed up Daniel Kitchen to its board once again as a non-executive director. Mr Kitchen, who previously held a seat on the building materials group's board up until 2003, also joined the board of Irish Nationwide Building Society late last year. He has previously held top positions at IBI Corporate Finance, Green Property and Heron International.

[djderry] 18/2/2009 19:38

Very disappointed by the misuse of the apostrophe in the recent RNS regarding their results.

[lbo] 06/2/2009 17:06

Kingspan; Moodys highlights difficult market conditions in peer downgrade

[lbo] 29/1/2009 21:22

The High Court has granted Anglo Irish Bank an order for possession of the home of former Smart Telecom CEO Oisin Fanning.

The bank took the action over what it says was Mr Fanning's failure to repay loans and interest of €8.6m.

Mr Fanning had opposed the action to possess his Co Kildare home, Forenaghts House. He claimed he was pressurised into taking out the loan to buy shares in Smart Telecom and that the bank was unconcerned that he had no means to repay it.

He claimed the bank only gave him the loan because Brendan Murtagh, who took over Smart Telecom in 2006, and was a long standing customer of the bank, had given assurances that repayments would be met.

He claims the loan was effectively made to Mr Murtagh, who knew Mr Fanning would be unable to repay it but had said as CEO of the company he needed to be seen to be investing in it

[lbo] 24/1/2009 13:41

Company shares used as loan security



Directors of insulation and building products manufacturer, Kingspan, are using more than 7 per cent of the company as security for personal loans. Chairman Eugene Murtagh and his brother Brendan are each using 3 per cent, or five million units, for this. Chief executive Gene Murtagh, is using 1.1 million. Dermot Mulvihill and Eoin McCarthy have also pledged Kingspan shares as security for personal loans

[djderry] 01/1/2009 19:55

Happy New Year to all holders.

[lbo] 19/12/2008 11:21

Letter to Santa from an Irish businessman

[lbo] 15/12/2008 11:20

Exporters suffer double whammy as sterling hits record low against euro

[lbo] 12/12/2008 13:39

Lets not even mention the collapse in Sterling versus Euro!

Davys:

UK non-residential activity continues to contract, according to new figures relating to commercial and industrial building activity in the UK. The UK Office for National Statistics (ONS) indicated that the value of private industrial and commercial construction orders in the UK were down 20% year-on-year in October. The October decline continues an ongoing pattern. Using quarterly figures as a more stable barometer of underlying trends, private industrial and commercial construction orders were 29% lower in the August-October quarter compared to the same quarter in 2007. We expect that for 2008 overall, UK industrial and commercial construction orders will probably fall over 25%.Unfortunately, there is every chance that activity will fall again in 2009. Orders in the early 1990s declined circa 58% over three consecutive years, and nonresidential output ultimately recovered later than the housing market. This suggests that already difficult trading conditions will continue for some time for those businesses with non-residential exposure to the UK. Kingspan stands out in this regard. Around 55% of group revenues are in the UK, about 60-70% of which are non-residential (commercial/industrial/office) and which are mostly new build. Reflecting the pressures that Kingspan is facing across its end-markets, we are forecasting that the group's earnings will fall 35% in 2008 and 57% in 2009.

[goggin] 11/12/2008 14:12

Hi DJ
I find your post 29 incredible for an intelligent man

"The patient investor is,perversely,much happier in a bear market.Month by month,he or she can add to shareholdings in companies at a price unimaginable even a few months ago.What do I care what the shareprice is this/next year? I'm playing the long game!"

There is no guarantee that the share price will recover, some do, some dont, some go bust, others get taken over at much lower prices than you purchased at.

The long game can be very painfull. I see you often remark about W. Buffett.
Now when did warren enter the markets? Generally since the 60's to late 90's a buy and hold approach worked but we are in changed times and changed times needs a fresh approach.
Banks were not going bust from the 60's to the 90's like they are today so what worked then will almost certaintly not work to day.
This is very reminasent of the 1930's. The big difference is wealth distribution, hence I don't believe things will get as bad or take as long to recover but that doesent mean we should take a blasie view of the world. buying near a bottom is much more profitable than buying tops to state the obvious.

[djderry] 08/12/2008 20:14

To paraphrase the sage of Omaha,one shouldn't be in the market for ten minutes unless you are willing to be in it for ten years.If one's cash is required in the next one,two,five years,then it shouldn't be invested in shares.I relish three 'down' years,if that's what's in store.(I don't place too much trust in broker's reports,they're wrong about as often as they're right!).Anyway,the market tends to move up well before a recession ends,if history is anything to go by.Attitude is as important as any other skill an investor might learn.

[lbo] 08/12/2008 14:05

Always remember a bear market can last longer then many investors can remain liquid!

Engine room of the boom grinds to a halt


The full scale of job losses across Co Meath is beginning to emerge as official figures show its towns are bearing the brunt of some of the fastest rising dole queues across the entire State. Live register figures, for example, have jumped by 122 per cent in Trim, 111 per cent in Kells and 94 per cent in Navan.

Much of the reason job losses are higher in Meath than many other areas is that it became the engine room for the construction boom.

Companies supplying the building industry - Kingspan, Gypsum, Kingscourt, O'Reilly Bros - were barely able to cope with demand, while locally-based auctioneering and engineering companies flourished.

But the foundation for the industry was built on sand. Orders have dried up, the firms are haemorrhaging money and hundreds have either been let go or are working on reduced hours.

[djderry] 05/12/2008 23:15

The patient investor is,perversely,much happier in a bear market.Month by month,he or she can add to shareholdings in companies at a price unimaginable even a few months ago.What do I care what the shareprice is this/next year? I'm playing the long game!

[lbo] 03/12/2008 17:03

Firms braced for further slides



Irish publicly quoted companies are now expected to post three consecutive years of earnings declines through 2010 as the domestic and global economies continue to deteriorate, according to analysts at Davy.

The country's biggest brokerage made more earnings downgrades for listed companies than upgrades in November -- a continuing trend that had been going on in each of the previous 13 months.

Davy analysts changed estimates for 25 companies last month, with downgrades outstripping upgrades by a rate of 10 to four. Allied Irish Banks, Grafton Group and Kingspan bore the main brunt of their red pens in November.

[djderry] 20/11/2008 20:34

Thank you for your comments Goggin,much appreciated.As regards leaving a lot of wealth behind,well I think that would be the sign of a misspent life,but I'll let you know when I get there! Seriously,though,to make really large sums of money takes,in my view,a significant amount of time.It's through compounding and the re-investment of dividends that most of the gains in the market come about.I don't trade.As regards Kingspan I have no view,over the short term,as to what its shareprice will be.However,I'm willing to invest on the basis that it is,to use the phrase,'well capitalised',that the recession will not last forever,that it's in the right regulatory place with its products,that it has a good geographical spread in its business and is well managed.I let the world economy take care of itself.I'll add if and when I have the capital.I don't judge the success or otherwise of my investments on what the market says at any particular time.I'm quite content to be a part owner of the business,which is what shareholders are.Re LBO's comments:I agree with your analysis insofar as one should only invest if one can afford to stay invested.If one needs the cash in,say,the next five years,I would not put it into this,or any other stock.

[goggin] 20/11/2008 13:30

Hi DJ - have no problem with any of the above and sorry if I came across as personal - it was meant to focus on your comments and not you personally - the world would be pretty boring if we dident have opposing views.
Are you serious that you wouldent sell if these went back to say 16 Euro- if not, why not and what would be the point of dying with a load of nosh tied up in shares for future generations to fight over???????

My 2 euro target is getting closer all the time - at 2 euro I am a short term buyer until next March - April time when I seriously believe this sucker rally which is coming will kill a serious number of people off.

[lbo] 20/11/2008 10:22

Djderry I admire your bravery (or is it stupidity?) Its a very fine line in the current economic enviornment and sadly markets could easily fall longer then investors can remain solvent IMHO.

National Irish Bank says world on brink of economic slowdown that is likely to have significant impact on Irish economy

[lbo] 20/11/2008 10:15

More jobs going at Kingspan