Kier Share Discussion Threads

[hamhamham1] 30/1/2023 14:02

Yawn, keep on trolling!

wallywoo30 Jan '23 - 13:14 - 24671 of 24671 (Filtered)

[wallywoo] 30/1/2023 13:14

Much more hilarious that pi's still think Kier is a viable investment.


After 7 straight years of losing cash, and 3 equity issues, 800% more shares. Kier are still losing £25m in cash every 6 months. Countdown to next cash call is only another 6-12 months.


But strangely, you still have several long term poster's who think this will make investors money. They even go as far as trying to pretend "Net debt" doesn't take into account cash the company hold. To try and entice investors to buy this rubbish.


The only logical explanation is that they are not real pi's and have alternative agenda's. Perhaps more poster's should fight back against these conmen??

[stutes] 30/1/2023 08:30

If a material passes BS, why should builders pay ?

[hamhamham1] 29/1/2023 12:14

Hilarious how some trolls try so hard.

[bathboy2] 28/1/2023 14:25

The momentum appears to have stuttered , possibly back around 68p next week , especially if interest rates are raised , as being predicted, not great looking forward , if Kier are still refinancing the debt , which is due , June 2023, I believe, its a big chunk of approximately the 500mn , some due 24/25 , just kicking the can down the road

[zicopele] 25/1/2023 19:26

Bathboy....the industry is plagued by shortage of labour at present.

That area in particular has been deeply impacted by Hinkley Point which ia paying big money.

[bathboy2] 25/1/2023 16:30

Just been talking to a contractor in the south devon area , 3 kier stalled jobs , that he knows of , 1 a large prison job , 'Channings Wood Prison' should have started back end of last summer , big new car park and New build, accommodation blocks , 1 small job on an office build , but nothing happened for last 2 months , empty site , and the 3rd , the knocki, ng down of a shopping centre , to be rebuilt as a mixed use development, again should have started last summer , site boarded up , no-one working , demolition contractors still to be appointed , all these jobs should be live , but they can't entice subbies, at the rates , and the risk adverse , credit insurance either not being offered or at high rates, I led to believe

[stdyeddy] 25/1/2023 16:01

Yeah, Kier shares only up about 30% since November.... let's see if it beats all of those. As for itm, you claimed a buy and it's only gone down from there, so you are not being truthful, as usual. But that's one of the things that I know about you wolly; you're ALWAYS lying.

[wallywoo] 25/1/2023 15:53

Sold my last lot of itm yesterday at 90.4p. May well buy again, it has been a useful trade to earn 5-10% quickly.


My easyjet shares are flying today. I remember the mocking I got (on here) when I bgt them at 327 in the summer. Other shares doing well wpp (bgt 577), wizz (bgt 1367), brwm (bgt 583), itv (bgt at 58), glen (at 400). And of course Bp (at 215). All of those I said when I bgt on here, and you all mocked me for them.


Meanwhile Kier makes no one money. You always have to spot the losers in the market, to be able to spot the winners imo.


Future winners are hbr, and gsk (average around today's price). All pay dividends of course.

[stdyeddy] 25/1/2023 15:39

Well we shall see. The last time you were arguing this way, the shares rose from 50p to 130p. My guess is that we will see the same again. Kier will be making cash, not running short of it. Historically you have been completely wrong about Kier on every point, including the sale of Kier Living, and Kier's ability to raise cash in a rights issue. Each time you've made these claims with absolute certainty and never once admitted that you were completely wrong when events turn out otherwise.

Considering you claim to have no position here, your constant posting on here is a good indication of your sly and devious nature. You are either short again (and won't admit it) and hurting from the recent rises, or you are merely a stupid troll. I see that your ITM shares are falling again; another one of your great tips which you've already lost money on once. Perhaps you should stop ramping wolly.

[wallywoo] 25/1/2023 15:08

I am stating facts;


Average monthly net debt is rising by £25m every 6 months.


Everything else you say is just waffle designed to cloud over the facts stated above.


Kier has had 3 equity issues because they cannot generate any cash; fact


Kier will run short of money again in 6 -12 months if they continue this rate of cash loss. Then similar to every other time Kier have run out of cash, the share price falls dramatically. Needless to say there is zero chance of a dividend.

[stdyeddy] 25/1/2023 14:31

wolly, you are a brazen liar because you continue to distort the truth even when it has been clearly laid out. Kier uses net debt and average monthly debt as defined terms and states the value of both. Net debt is defined in the annual report -- broadly all loans minus cash on hand. Kier is cash positive, by about £3m at the last year-end.

Average monthly debt reflects Kier's working capital needs and historically goes up for Kier in the first half, as Davies explains. They have paid off KEPS fully (£50m) and a US loan of £32.6m which matured last month and paid off at least £20m of the Revolving Credit Facility, using cash. KEPS has not been traditionally listed as debt (consolidated instead within Kier's 'trade payables' balance sheet line), but it might as well be. Now they have paid it down completely. Kier has given plenty of detail. That's over £100m in debt paid down, and the avg monthly debt has only gone up by £50m. Potentially there is £50m of cash generation used right there, though we will have to see the full numbers to be sure of that. Kier's own forecast for annual cash generation now that the firm has been refinanced, is close to £100m, so £50m for the first six months seems realistic.

Every week you ramble on about some great conspiracy or other, meanwhile Kier is clearing up all of the weaknesses in its balance sheet. We know that the business was brought low by the previous management. You seem wilfully blind to the measures that Kier has taken to slowly dig itself out of that hole, including two rights issues, the sale of assets, cancelling the dividend since 2019 and a big cost-cutting programme which involved making thousands of staff redundant and exiting loss-making contracts.

Now if you think Kier is not worth investing in, great. You've said so several times a day on here for four years and have earned your place as the most boring tw@t on advfn. The share price and the market will show what everyone else thinks. Right now this £3bn turnover business is valued at about £300m, so it is not worth very much. You are being disingenuous in suggesting it should be worth less. Meanwhile, recent moves suggest that the market is beginning to recognise Kier as a solid 'recovery play', a view shared by a number of people on this board.

[stdyeddy] 25/1/2023 14:28

wolly, I am not 'tricking' anyone into anything. It is YOU who are being deceitful, and you have been caught lying on here dozens of times by different posters over the last four years, including me.

I will repost my message from yesterday since you keep on repeating the same rubbish about Kier. We can do this all day. This is only a free advfn chatboard. There's no 'importance' here. Obviously marksp2011 will be crushed that he can't find an investment grade discussion on here, but he should really be reading the Kier reports and industry analysis elsewhere anyway.

The buyers at Blackrock are not reading your nonsense.

[wallywoo] 25/1/2023 14:12

Lol, let's look at what net debt means shall we;




For those who can't be bothered to click the link;

"Net debt is calculated by subtracting a company's total cash and cash equivalents from its total short-term and long-term debt".




who is trying to be deceiving here??


I love the way you try to trick pi's into buying this rubbish. It is plain to see that you do not care that Kier is performing poorly and losing cash. You just want to trick investors into buying this poor investment by deceitful means. So sad!!!

[stdyeddy] 25/1/2023 13:58

wolly, as usual, you are being deceitful. Those numbers don't account for cash in hand. They are not net debt and don't reflect the debt position of the business as compared to most reporting requirements. As has been pointed out, you know this and you are the one trying to twist the truth. The reality is that your witterings are entirely academic at this point -- the market is moving. Blackrock has increased its stake; a major holder may have picked up another 1.5% yesterday. The price is likely not going down because whatever is being sold by PIs is being bought up by serious investors.

[stdyeddy] 25/1/2023 11:58

RNS at 11am. Blackrock has increased its stake in Kier by about a quarter, from 4.13% to 5.16%.

[playnicely] 25/1/2023 08:46

You've had it explained to you twice wallywoo. Seems you've got your fingers in your ears. Are you short? Kier probably generated about £50m in cash in the first half and chose to pay off debt and not renew some loans. According to the update, the company isn't losing cash, it's making cash.

[wallywoo] 25/1/2023 08:15

Lol, it was a very obvious pump and dump.

Other sectors don't organise their cash collection to have positive net cash for 1 day a year. That is why this sector is so badly thought of. They disguise their demise. Kier are following the path of Carillion, Interserve, Jarvis, Connaught and many others before. Large construction companies that don't have a strong enough balance sheet to generate any cash.


Kier are losing cash, just as they have been doing for 7 years. That's why the shares have fallen from 1800p to 72p today and why they have issued over 800% more shares over 7 years. If it continues, it will be why they go bust. Please don't say that it doesn't matter, it very obviously does.

[playnicely] 25/1/2023 08:10

Possibly a big transfer between major shareholders. More than 1.5% of the company traded off market.

[playnicely] 25/1/2023 07:55

6 million share trade went in after the market close at above the UT price. Looks like a buy. Something is happening here.

[playnicely] 25/1/2023 07:53

wallywoo, all companies report at year end. Kier's avg monthly debt isn't a balance sheet figure. It doesn't include assets like money due from customers. Two different measure of debt. Companies in other sectors don't even bother reporting monthly average debt. Have you been following Kier for four years and you really don't know this?

[wallywoo] 24/1/2023 22:03

Lol, how can I be lying? I am giving real average net debt figures. Debt is rising and Davies is using clever wording to make it sound like it isn't. That is a fact.


Year end net cash or debt is 1 day a year snapshot of their cash / debt position.


Average monthly net debt is the average net debt at the end of each month.


So 1 figure shows their average debt throughout the year and the other figure for 1 day.


It's a bit like saying I am not in debt because I have a positive bank balance for 1 day a year. And that the massive amount of debt I have for 353 days of the year doesn't matter.

Davies is misleading investors by the use of clever wording. Kier is increasing their debt month by month. That will only lead to them needing more finance or administration, if it continues, as it has for the last 7 years. Note he doesn't say that average monthly net debt will fall in H2, which is what kier desperately need to become a viable investment.


The number of shares traded today is significant. The pump is complete. Expect the share price to fall back quickly now imho.

[bathboy2] 24/1/2023 20:59

Can it correct that nearly 3.5 mn shares traded at 15.3 today , were they brought or sold. On advan says buy , on lse says unknown, major movement, surely RNS will be forthcoming tomorrow