Just Retirement Share Discussion Threads

[cthompso] 24/4/2014 11:16

Looks like a v.healthy re-rating by someone?

[bad robot] 24/4/2014 11:13

Turning up upwards.

I think MM wants it to go 200p

[scrapheap] 24/4/2014 08:53

Interesting last few hous of trading since late yesterday in terms of this price move higher...

I wonder what's behind this....

[topvest] 24/4/2014 07:40

How does this product work then?

[poppabear4u] 24/4/2014 07:25

I see that JR have launched a one year fixed term annuity.http://www.moneymarketing.co.uk/news-and-analysis/pensions/just-retirement-latest-to-add-one-year-fixed-term-annuity/2009427.articleLooks like they are responding to the budget pretty nimbly.

[topvest] 21/4/2014 09:58

These seem good value at the moment. You are effectively buying the in-force book at close to EEV and the rest of the (previously very profitable business) for an option value. The uncertainty is probably what is doing it. The market doesn't know whether the market is finished or reduced or not as badly impacted as thought. They will have a difficult couple of years. That said, there is plenty of new business for creative companies like this so with a medium to long term view looks an interesting proposition.

[18bt] 14/4/2014 11:10

But the Treasury changed the rules on the time period in which you can choose your annuity last week which obviates the need to take out a 1 year annuity in order to take the tax free lump sum



So not sure what the point of the new product is

[rmjpb] 12/4/2014 12:32

JR Launching a 1 year fixed term annuity next week I am led to believe, like LV= who are cleaning up at the moment IMO. If true signs that they are thinking and acting quickly to change. Next we need a flexible drawdown contract with flexible income and a 2.5% no risk interest rate. That would really sell and take advantage of the new proposed legislation.

[scrapheap] 09/4/2014 07:41

A very good summary of the market and uncertainties here in the PA. letter to shareholders today. Short term uncertainty but medium term potential for better % business for these 2 insurers if greater OMO use...

[scrapheap] 07/4/2014 15:21

3.8m share trade gone through - I assume it's Schroders selling down further and hope if so, they don't have too much more to get rid of!

Now who is buying the stock though?

[hawkhybrid] 07/4/2014 13:10

Most savers said they would either buy an annuity with a small portion of the fund, to guarantee some income, or keep their money invested in the pension and take an income as they needed it. More than six in ten respondents said that they would take one of these two routes.

although the poll is from 1,000 members of workplace pensions, I think they
have the right idea about retirement.

what would a person entering retirement do with all of
their pension in one lump sum? how many would go reckless?

people can't tell how long they will live for but hope
to be relatively stress free after retirement.

HH

[arobmorg] 07/4/2014 12:18

Only 1 in 10 to take their whole pension in cash?

[rathlindri] 04/4/2014 10:56

Anyone think this might be a tentative recovery?

Edit: Another wee tick up, will settle for that

[rathlindri] 03/4/2014 15:11

Decent rise today, will it hold though??

[scrapheap] 31/3/2014 15:15

FCA still not going to make it easy for advisers to turn their back on annuities... no surprise there!

The FCA's Risk Outlook 2014 said: "The reforms increase individual responsibility, putting the responsibility of having sufficient funds in place after retirement in the hands of retirees.

"This may cause detriment as individuals could make decisions that are not necessarily in their own long-term interests."

[scrapheap] 31/3/2014 15:08

And so it begins with new products..

LV have brought out a new fixed term annuity for 1 year period. Previously they were the only offeror of 3-yr fixed term annuities, Just Retirement have 5 year min ones...

Incidentally good to see another chunk of shares bought by a director!

[scrapheap] 30/3/2014 19:39

Was this reported on here from the IC?




IC VIEW:

Some level of annuity market shrinkage looks inevitable and that presents challenges - especially for such players as Just Retirement and Partnership Assurance. But there's also some truth to Partnership's assertion that the guaranteed income that comes with an annuity "will remain an important financial solution" for many. On that basis, it's far from clear that the worst case - the near-death of the annuity market - is inevitable. Moreover, it's also unlikely that those who appear the most exposed won't diversify or innovate to make their offering more attractive - after all, and as Jonathan Howe, the UK insurance specialist at accountancy firm PwC, points out, "there are thriving life insurance industries around the world without compulsory annuity purchases". Accordingly, and while some share price correction at Just Retirement (136p) and Partnership (119p) may well have been warranted, the scale of slide - shares in both now trade well below reported embedded value - looks overdone. For those with patience, and an appetite for risk, buying at these depressed levels could prove lucrative.

[scrapheap] 30/3/2014 12:15

I agree entirely with RMJPB... again!

ATR and especially Capactiy for Loss alter for most at retirement and all those people in their 40s/50's will likely have a lot less gung-ho approach when it comes to themselves actually retiring.

As an adviser it's all too easy, to expect some people to complain when their money runs out in x years time and that they thought it was for life - it's a bit like recommending fixed or variable rate mortgages, an adviser will usually steer towards a fix as there's less uncertainty for x-years and you don't want the client to risk their well-being in case the future works out different to that expected. Certainty comes at a price but it has value too.

[rmjpb] 30/3/2014 10:16

When you retire you usually have an income lower than what you have been used to and thus your capacity for loss reduces.Even if your personal attitude to investment risk does not change, a financial adviser will NOT be recommending drawdown if you have a low capacity for loss.Therefore even if clients want to, a good adviser will still be recommending annuities. Until the FCA changes its guidance to Financial Advisers, and updates COBS rules, nothing has really changed except a clients options.If it turns out that Advisers will be recommending significantly less annuities now, then we are admitting that some of the business we wrote previously was wrong. With an annuity you have certainty - a client knows the risks they are signing up to. Its easy to explain and easy to document. Everyone knows where they stand.In drawdown there are many ifs and buts. When the client runs out of money, and becomes desperate for money, they become easy pickings for claims management companies, and will attempt to claim " misselling". This is inevitable - and unfortunately the odds are skewed against the advisor , regardless of how many caveats are in the suitability report.Therefore annuities will still be sold in high numbers by advisors. This is in my opinion and does not constitute financial advice.

[rathlindri] 28/3/2014 21:12

bouncy bouncy

[scrapheap] 28/3/2014 13:41

Watching these share prices of the 2 is far too stressful... I resolve to stick with the day job and some last minute pension contributions for the current tax year!!

[scrapheap] 28/3/2014 07:38

Morning,

HH - agreed. Shares ISAs are the usual vehicle for any capital at risk for them.

Simon - I would see PA. as perhaps the higher risk / higher reward option than JRG as the latter has equity release too and has now moved in to immediate needs care annuities along with PA and Friends Life. JRG has also put out a financial strength aid for advisers and their ratio is stronger showing than PAs (but then it is an aid they've produced...) I'm not sure though so hence why I bought both!

Income drawdown has always been about investment risk vs flexibility and a niche product - even before the Budget it was increasing its share of the at retirement market BUT I think people were forgetting 2008 and looking at recent market performance and hoping for more and/or wanting to wait to see if better annuity rates arrive in the future. As I say those who have other means, are likely to go for flex drawdown to a maturity of nil in plans with no investment risk (eg LV currently and JR effectively) but that is surely another niche not mass product too.

I wonder if the 'sophisticated' analysts, traders & fund managers perhaps even the financial press are not value judging on their levels of comfort with investment risk and which is not really the same as joe publics.

[poppabear4u] 28/3/2014 07:27

I don't understand the differential in share price between Partnership and Just Retirement. According to the published results for end 2013, Partnership had IFRS equity of c£600m (~£1.50 per share) and embedded value of £520m (£1.30 ps). JR had IFRS of £800m (£1.60 ps) and EV of £892m (£1.80 ps). JR's EV assumption about future bond spreads is a lot lower than Partnerships so much more prudent. Both companies seem to be being valued assuming no new business so JR ought to be trading 10% to 30% above Partnership.What am I missing? I am thinking of taking a punt on one of these but not sure which one?Anyone help?

[hawkhybrid] 27/3/2014 22:46

I'm inclined to think that many approaching retirement age
would want at least part of their retirement income from
a reliable steady source. why would you continue to take
on risks at that age?

HH

[treenie] 27/3/2014 22:37

Bad Robot,that announcement would have no bearing on JRG at all.

The cap is in relation to charges made on workplace pension funds whilst being saved. It doesn't relate to the charges on any options,including annuities, at retirement.