Ironveld Share Discussion Threads

[dr darkstar] 06/12/2023 16:45

Tweets about the obvious use of metals are a complete waste of time. Any idiot can create them ( and one probably does)..... If this is the best they can do .....god help us

[aceuk] 06/12/2023 11:26

Got all we want for Christmas, titanium as well!

[aceuk] 04/12/2023 15:43

No not would, DOES!

[ladeside] 04/12/2023 14:46

The Ducks are starting to line up, however it's high time we started to hook a couple of them !!

As I think I speak for most of us when saying this share would drive you quackers....

[ladeside] 04/12/2023 13:32

It certainly won't do us any harm to have connections with a major player such as Sibanye-Stillwater.

Who knows what could come of that ?

Sibanye-Stillwater is a multinational mining and metals processing group with a diverse portfolio of operations, projects and investments across five continents. The Group is also one of the foremost global recyclers of PGM autocatalysts and has interests in leading mine tailings retreatment operations.

Sibanye-Stillwater has established itself as one of the world’s largest primary producers of platinum, palladium, and rhodium and is a top tier gold producer. It also produces and refines iridium and ruthenium, nickel, chrome, copper and cobalt. The Group has recently begun to build and diversify its asset portfolio into battery metals mining and processing and is increasing its presence in the circular economy by growing and diversifying its recycling and tailings reprocessing operations globally. For more information refer to www.sibanyestillwater.com.

[al101uk] 29/11/2023 11:17

Top the list in my letter to Santa for this year, I guess I'm ahead of the curve :-)

[aceuk] 29/11/2023 10:57

Vanadium's all the rage for Christmas .... 2030 ;-)

[ladeside] 28/11/2023 11:44

Exciting stuff at the moment....

[tomtum1] 25/11/2023 11:12

Let's see the last time you were on here ENET was 3p it's less than a penny now.Clearly you haven't a clue Patt

[purchaseatthetop] 24/11/2023 18:53

They were pumping the vanadium possibilities three weeks ago. Sadly vanadium price has been tanking for a year. What about high purity iron in toffee apples?

[dead duck resources] 23/11/2023 19:37

Wonder how much Ironveld pays BlytheRay for the PR here. Whatever it is it's too much.

[dipin1] 21/11/2023 13:41

Todays ridiculous LinkedIn post by the company:

'Did you know that High Purity Iron is used for food fortification? This is a process of enhancing the nutritive value of a food product by adding elements such as folic acid, iron powders and vitamins'

At this point I think they are trolling shareholders

[luckyabbeygale] 21/11/2023 12:59

Something big just happened?

[rec0very stock] 15/11/2023 09:46

Al,

I suspect it all links in to taking on 3rd party smelting which they claimed was "cash generative". It also exposes the lie they gave you about not knowing smelting costs. How can they charge a 3rd party and generate cash without knowing what their costs are, how can they internally charge themselves for smelting without knowing what their costs are? Why take on 3rd party smelting when they supposedly have plenty of their own ore to smelt? Are they being put under pressure to make debt repayments out of these "profits"? It also indicates that when all directly related operating costs (mining, transport and internal smelting charge) are taken into account the products are not being sold at enough to cover them - ie this would show as a gross loss at the consolidated level (explains why they don't want to release a smelting cost which is the largest of the 3) which get added to further by SA admin (they don't want to talk about these as they are also rather large) and central (London) costs (about the same as they have always been).

All we really can be sure of is that, at an overall PLC level, the company is and will continue to burn cash. So far the rate of cash burn has been extremely high, hence the 2 top ups (my calcs when the first 2023 placing was done was the cash could have lasted until 2024 but they would probably want to do a placing before accounts came out with another going concern emphasis of matter).

[castleford tiger] 14/11/2023 05:45

Mercury recycling cost me about 20 p so it’s fair to say tax loss is my only hope

[al101uk] 13/11/2023 16:09

"raises some accounting questions for me"

So basically it will make zero difference to the consolidated accounts that we see, the parent compay will show a loss that will offset the "profit" the smelting company makes and the two items will be removed from the consolidated accounts as they cancel each other out.

In other words Intercompany cash movements are reconciled against each other and removed when preparing consolidated accounts.

Personally I find it a very poor definition of profit when used in an RNS.

[purchaseatthetop] 07/11/2023 19:04

Vanadium

Tanking is the understatement of the year. China property collapse means most demand has evaporated.

[al101uk] 07/11/2023 18:59

Someone is watching(?) I got a response.

Couple of things learned:

1. The analyst for the note wasn't guided to the numbers he used, so we can stop treating it as gospel. It's still the only number we have though.

2. The debt is repayable as 13.5% of profits from the Smelting Company (a subsiduary of Ironveld). Presumably Ironveld and it's partners will pay FCF a "market rate" for the smelting of it's ore and the company will therefore register a profit that can fund the debt. I'm guessing the creditors wouldn't have done the deal if there wasn't an assurance that the margins in the smelting business would be adaquate.

Not an accountant so that raises some accounting questions for me (lack of knowledge), but that will have to be for another time.

[al101uk] 07/11/2023 16:13

Just on the warrants and why they matter...

If I can buy shares at 1p and those shares are effectively an option (double or bust). I can calculate the likelihood of success and work out if the investment is worthwhile.

If I paid 1p per share for a 50% chance of doubling my money and a 50% chance of losing it, there would be no expected return on investment.

If I get the same 1p share, but add a warrant that I can exercise at 1.1p then my gain on a win doubles. So a loss shows a 1p loss, while a win shows a 2p gain. That's a 50% expected return for JW vs a 0% expected return for a regular PI.

Obviously I'm using easy numbers and rounding to keep it simple.

An investment in Ironveld is an option on them making it to profitability, JW's willingness to to put further money in is a sign that the Ironveld is not a dead company walking, but I think it's worth remembering that his gains on success are outsized compared to a PI's and he's being potentially somewhat compensated through his chairmans compensation in the meantime.

Obviously my first post is opinion based and this one is dependant on your own expectation of success and risk appetite, so it's still perfectly possible to make the argument that Ironveld are justified not putting numbers around the smelting costs and that the channce of success and the gains on success are far greater than 100%, you can even re-define what success looks like. I'm just explaining how I'm thinking about Ironveld currently and why JW's investment is different to regular PI's.

Anyway, unlikely I have anything else to say until they publish more detail or get more done.

[al101uk] 07/11/2023 15:53

It's been a while since a mailed Investor Relations, so thought I'd post my questions here at this point as it doesn't seem I'll be getting any further clarification:

So my first question was:

The last update I saw on smelting costs had them at $335 per tonne, but this is from a very old note. Is this still the expected level or could a new number be provided?

I was told smelting costs haven't been published.

My follow up was to ask if the analyst note numbers that we were given were guided at that time, but no answer.

Second question:

Could the terms of the debt the company took to fund the smelter be clarified? When does the 10 year payment period begin (or has it already?). When are debt payments due to start and how are they calculated? Are there any provisions for defering the debt should Ironveld not reach sufficient profitability during that time?

The same nonsensical line from the RNS was quoted back to me.

I followed up explaining why that line was non-sensical and asking again for clarification via a series of further questions:

The debt is over 10 years (starting when?)
Paid out of profits (Profit defined as? Smelter profits, Operating level, parent company, EBITDA?).
The RNS says that Ironveld purchased the debt, so it isn't contained within the smelter business?
Capped at 13.5% (13.5% of what? 13.5% of a £66k operating profit isn't going to pay down the debt over 10 years, for example).

Third question and response, I've already posted.

The response to question one confirms to me that they are purposefully obfuscating on smelting costs, which on it's own makes the company uninvestable. To be fair they did say that they are not in full production yet and so don't have a number for smelting costs. But surely they have some kind of ballpark number they could guide too... they choose not to publish a number and there is only one conclusion one can draw from that.

[ladeside] 03/11/2023 15:03

You're a liar, you're bitter, you're twisted and you're extremely boring.

Bye bye.

[rec0very stock] 02/11/2023 16:38

"the fact remains that the company is likely to be sold for £30 MILLION + which is an increase of over 300% on today's share price "

That is not a fact at all, it is very much wishful thinking by people who have got in too deep and cannot get out.

That the company is and will continue to burn cash is a fact evidenced by the continuing need to have more cash injected.

As far as your 300% is concerned. Nearly 2 years ago I sold most of my holding at over 300% of today's share price so even if your dream comes true all you will have done is waste 2 years.