Immupharma Share Discussion Threads

[harleydocman] 23/5/2018 10:47

Can you prove your point 5, please

[wigwammer] 23/5/2018 10:41

A few points:1) after decades of failure, it appears an increasing number of KOL's are embracing the idea that the historic trial framework used in lupus trials have been an impediment to finding effective treatments 2) the insight gained from a single p statistic when trying to understand the effect of a drug on a diverse range of patients is clearly limited. A KOL with a genuine desire to find effective treatments and an understanding of lupus trial history will want to see all the data before reaching conclusions3) it makes no sense to believe the utility of a drug is based purely on confidence in statistical efficacy and not on safety - nor does it make any sense to believe there can be no trade off between the two. Given the only drug passed in 50 years carries a serious side effects label, I imagine the equitable trade off will be quite considerable 4) a p value of 0.09 suggests it is unlikely that the superior efficacy shown in patients with heightened anti dsDNA (the industry accepted marker for lupus) occurred by chance5) 5 of the 70 taking lupus showed heightened anti dsDNA scores that moved to zero. Fact. How often does that happen by chance - be interested to know.

[colsmith] 23/5/2018 10:23

Nobby re your "There is no way I would take Lupuzor as it has been proven not to work."

Anyhow here is my brain dump.


With the results that showed it does work you would take it - a little honesty please, because any sufferer - and its terrible disease would - just like the so called drowning guy grabbing at driftwood in mid Atlantic would almost certainly take the gamble.

I still can't understand why you post so much - is this your day job, if so who pays you? If not its a waste of time unless for some perverse reason you get some gratification out of posting. You are stuck in the old mindset that if the stats aren't passed a drug is without doubt a failure. So you are deliberately telling it incorrectly - you may make some valid points but don't keep saying it doesn't work that isn't correct. Maybe the drug industry needs to recall the old adage:

"Lies dam lies and statistics."


Taking any drug is a gamble and as someone told me recently "I don't look at the side effects they frighten me."

If the side effects were up in lights (its small print stuff) for many drugs the mindset of the person who made the comment could well be - I wont; take the risk, particularly when a side affect is stated as "it may cause death". The side effect of a drug is a serious issue for the regulators who have to balance the risk of taking against the chance of improvement - how do they do that when a side effect is it could kill you? There are clearly issues for the industry - including the cost of approval due to the time it takes to get approval.

I suggest that as P140 side effects aren't of apparently any significant health risk the regulators have a key parameter to consider when deciding on market use. Why delay something that can help folks?


Have a nice day.

[che7win] 23/5/2018 10:08

It's not unethical to give patients what they requested.
It's not unethical to give patients an opportunity to have full remission.

You could equally argue it's unethical to give a patient something that can cause death, which can be said for other drugs.

I agree with bookbroker though, noone knows the in depth results at this stage, all we know is that this drug works for some patients really well.

Maybe the deeper dive in SLEDAI scores will uncover more positive data.

[brad44] 23/5/2018 10:07

Harleydocman, please discuss this on your own forum bb with nobby, or just turn your computer off and look in the mirror and talk to nobby as he only created you this morning ffs

[harleydocman] 23/5/2018 10:04

@nobby

The feedback from the patients ( 5 years worth) suggests that safety is not an issue

Complete remission in 4 patients taking the high dose ( no flares in 5 years )

Anyway, let's not get lupus patients hopes up too much...All this needs to be confirmed by the results in the 2b trial...

[bookbroker] 23/5/2018 10:02

McCarthy now been involved in two ringers, Alizyme and Immupharma, he is a sophisticated rhetorician in the exuberant inebriation of his own verbosity!

[brad44] 23/5/2018 09:54

absolute nonsense, and not end of, what is unethical is someone who purports to be from the medical profession/industry, constantly giving out false information on a public forum.

[bookbroker] 23/5/2018 09:53

Amazed this thread still receives so much attention, move on until some news from the company actually emerges, the story is over here, so no point procrastinating and surmising what may or not have been! They’ll soon enough run out of dough!

[nobbygnome] 23/5/2018 09:52

>> harleydocman

Sorry don't know what you mean by a 'furie fan'.....

When I say long term safety, I mean years, which will clearly be difficult to prove.

[nobbygnome] 23/5/2018 09:49

They shouldn't be carrying on with the OLE as it is unethical. End of.

[brad44] 23/5/2018 09:44

if thats the case, why did they proceed with the OLE

[nobbygnome] 23/5/2018 09:22

>> che

You just can't say that. The stats tell you that could have happened by chance. Sometimes I despair.....

The market doesn't seem to agree with you...

[harleydocman] 23/5/2018 09:20

@nobby,

You are a Furie fan :-)

The vaccine seems to work very well and has no major side effects like lupuzor..

I am waiting on their 2B results which are due out in less than a month ...

[che7win] 23/5/2018 09:19

It provides complete remission for some patients.68% efficacy for others, and no side serious effects

[nobbygnome] 23/5/2018 09:09

>> harleydocman

The issue with any kinoid approach is, how do you turn it off when you no longer need the antibodies. It is not the same as dosing with the antibodies themselves because they will disappear. In the case of the kinoid the B cells producing the antibody (actually plasma cells) will be still there for years potentially.

So from a theoretical point of view I don't like the approach, although I know the results look encouraging. Long term safety is the issue for me.

Nobby

[nobbygnome] 23/5/2018 09:05

There are no side effects at this dose because it doesn't do anything.....

[che7win] 23/5/2018 09:03

I guess if you were suffering from Lupus, had tried Benlysta or another immunosuppressant drug, and had to come off them, you would be thinking differently.
It easy to say that Lupuzor didn't meet end point, but the fact is that on standard of care, or any of the other drugs, there are side effects.
Lupuzor has none, it is risk free - and it works with the chance of complete cure.
That might be the reason why the company is daily be contacted by Lupus sufferers desperate to get the drug.

PS: Isn't Neovacs is just like the rest - immunosuppressant? I think so.

[harleydocman] 23/5/2018 09:00

@Nobby

What do you make of Neovacs with their kinoid vaccine ?

[nobbygnome] 23/5/2018 08:34

PS Anifrolumab would be my preferred treatment if I had to take something off label. That at least met its primary endpoint in phase II and I suspect will in phase III shortly

[nobbygnome] 23/5/2018 08:30

>> Col smith

There is no way I would take Lupuzor as it has been proven not to work.

What does the article say 'crumbs of comfort'.... that is precisely what you guys are taking. The sooner you realise that with this dose Lupuzor is dead the better. The only way to benefit patients (which is what I want to do) is to do another trial with a higher dose. It is you guys who are preventing it reaching patients by supporting the management in their fruitless, time wasting, money consuming current path.

Nobby

[colsmith] 23/5/2018 08:22

He's at it again - our very Mr/Correct. Anyhow a small piece that shows where the wind might be blowing in the industry. P140 hasn't failed to improve patients health and Lupus is in some cases life threatening. Clearly the way drugs are approved and get to market needs a revamp - is this a smoke signal? I also wonder if our Mr.Correct would take P140 if he had LUPUS - his answer was no but that's easy to say when you don't suffer.

EXTRACT
The House passed a bill giving patients with life-threatening conditions access to unproven drugs

[francisgalton] 22/5/2018 22:51

The end of the article is a ramp for investing in Bitcoins / crypto currencies. So the guru speaks - biotech supposedly too risky, so invest in cryptos??

[nobbygnome] 22/5/2018 22:41

The guru is very keen on pointing out when anyone else says anything which is not 100% correct.

People who took his advice on VER have already missed out on a 25% rise in 2 days. Perhaps he is not really a guru after all. Just saying like....

[nobbygnome] 22/5/2018 22:37

The article is interesting and is essentially correct but for the wrong reasons. The drug could have worked.....if it wasn't for poor interpretation of science. The real problem of most of these small biotechs is inept management and that is where IMM excels.

More pain for shareholders is coming until you get the management to change course. It is so bleedin obvious.....and it is not too late. You guys should be deluging lyin Tim et al with emails telling them this.

Nobby