Hiscox Share Discussion Threads

[bulltradept] 15/4/2020 11:12

You aren't a verified user so you could be! ;-)

[danielinnes74] 15/4/2020 11:10

The continuing share drops might be a clue though

[danielinnes74] 15/4/2020 11:10

Ok I am a car cleaner and making it up

[windsor430] 15/4/2020 10:49

Do you read bulletins Daniel? Everyone professes to be an expert or have industry expertise!!!!

[danielinnes74] 15/4/2020 10:43

For the avoidance of doubt I have a vague idea of what I’m taking about as its been my vocation for a few decades now.

[windsor430] 15/4/2020 10:32

And what’s your problem with that oh-undeniable-insurance-expert-to-whom-me-must-all-obey?

[effortless cool] 15/4/2020 10:30

The bit of the FCA letter windsor quoted:

"Based on our conversations with the industry to date, our estimate is that most policies have basic cover, do not cover pandemics and therefore would have no obligation to pay out in relation to the Covid-19 pandemic. While this may be disappointing for the policyholder we see no reasonable grounds to intervene in such circumstances".

The bit he didn't quote:

"In contrast, there are policies where it is clear that the firm has an obligation to pay out on a policy. For these policies, it is important that claims are assessed and settled quickly. A key objective of the FCA is to ensure that financial pressures on policyholders are not exacerbated by slow payment, rather, such claims should be paid as soon as is possible. This is consistent with the wider objective of the authorities to support business and consumers during the current crisis. If there are reasonable grounds to pay part of a claim but not to make the payment of such claims in full, we would like you and your Board to adopt an approach of making an interim payment. Many firms are already doing this. If you disagree with doing so, we would like you to send to us the grounds for reaching that decision including how you believe it represents a fair outcome for customers. Your firm’s decision is likely to help inform our assessment of its culture".

For the avoidance of doubt, I am not short HSX or, indeed, anything else.

[windsor430] 15/4/2020 10:19

I appreciate that Effortless, but FCA are obviously responding to Hiscox PR coverage aren’t they? Be a sausage and admit you recognise that. You & me can argue on here all we like about wording - much like the people going to the press & the Hiscox call centre teams. Highly paid lawyers & experts (not bulletin board shorters like your good self) will dictate the outcome.

[harleymaxwell] 15/4/2020 10:10

Their policy wordings often give wider coverage than peers

[effortless cool] 15/4/2020 10:07

windsor, you are clueless.

"Most business interruption policies" is not what is relevant here; the "Hiscox business interruption policy" is what matters, and that is quite different to "most".

[bulltradept] 15/4/2020 09:55

What are yours?

[windsor430] 15/4/2020 09:54

Hope all of you who criticised my comment re: FCA are reading their statement!

"Mr Woolard (FCA CEO) admitted that following conversations with insurers, it was clear that most business interruption policies held by small and medium-sized businesses only had basic cover which did not include pandemics and therefore insurers had no obligation to pay out in relation to Covid-19."

Of course insurers have to pay out to fair claimants - but this is a small, vocal, minority & FCA statement is clear on insurers paying up... but how many will have to? Their CEO is saying - not many!

[harleymaxwell] 15/4/2020 09:17

any views on support lines

[danielinnes74] 15/4/2020 08:56

Agreed suet. Was a robust business with a rock solid brand until this sorry state of affairs. Personally I am irritated and mightily upset about how this is playing out. I guess they are caught between the Fianancial implications of paying out or the brand damage of not.

[suetballs] 15/4/2020 08:01

I was in good old LLoyd's when it went bust in the early 90's. The excellent Hiscox Syndicate 33 was one of the syndicates to save my bacon. Sorry to see Hiscox in such trouble now - but I have to say that it doesn't look pretty.
Suet

[danielinnes74] 15/4/2020 07:34

Windsor is in a minority here. I’m
Involved in this industry so must keep particulars to myself but two points:
1) their lawyers have their views but there is at least an equally robust opposing opinion
2) the brand damage from this is potentially irreparable

[our haven] 15/4/2020 07:06

Actually Windsor430, the point made about 'my word is my bond' is a fair one. Hiscox is known as a generous settlers of claims, so if the they are seen as the opposite then this will cause them damage if anyone else pays.I am a long term investor who is concerned but I think in the end they will not have to pay out and nor will others.

[sheikinstevens] 15/4/2020 07:06

Was that the text you presented yesterday and then removed? Why did you do that?

Your issue is you have taken 7b in isolation.

[effortless cool] 15/4/2020 07:00

Haha, you clearly don't.

I suggest that you get hold of Hiscox's "geo/specialty" policy wording, go to the section headed "Property - business interruption (venue)", then review clause 7.b and the policy definition of "notifiable human disease".

Once you have done that, you will be in a position to express an informed opinion.

[windsor430] 15/4/2020 06:54

I’m sorry to have to tell the shorters this so bluntly - but the insurers lawyers and policy wording will mean the claims don’t hold up.

[waikenchan] 15/4/2020 06:46

Suspect they didn't get enough reinsurance for something like a national shutdown as well, otherwise they wouldnt be trying so hard not to pay.

The reputational damage will be huge plus all the costly legal action.

[windsor430] 15/4/2020 06:45

Haha I do - and have read enough about this case / experienced enough around the insurance industry. Thanks for your concern though and expansive explanations to date.

[effortless cool] 15/4/2020 06:31

windsor430 - you do not understand the issue here.

[harleymaxwell] 15/4/2020 05:01

Think these guys are also big in the event cancellation market which won't be pretty....