Hansard Global Share Discussion Threads

[cwa1] 21/9/2012 08:09

Oh well, 10+% off the loose change in one of my accounts down the drain for now! Thankfully not too heavily invested here, sorry for those whao are. However, if they can maintain and progress the 8%+ yield over time it should pay its keep if nothing else......

[cwa1] 21/9/2012 08:01

As expected, market not keen

[solarno lopez] 21/9/2012 07:26

.so much for cash flow !

[cwa1] 21/9/2012 07:21

Dividend re based from next year, maintained this. Still talking of 8p per year and progressive thereon. Current trading sounds tough but optimism shown looking forward.

[fangorn2] 13/9/2012 21:41

Oh sorry to intrude. :)

[hieronymous1] 13/9/2012 21:39

Fangorn2

I was keeping it simple for the simple minded.

[fangorn2] 13/9/2012 21:35

Can't he take out a loan, or get the bank to give him an advance based on the fact he has earned £300(but is awaiting payment) and thus pay HMRC,and not be declared bankrupt?

[hieronymous1] 13/9/2012 21:34

A plumber does a job for you and has earned £300. You pay him at the end of the month. Until then he has earnings but no cash. With no cash he cannot pay his taxes and HMRC makes him bankrupt.

[solarno lopez] 13/9/2012 17:16

You are begining to destroy your own arguement ..

[aleman] 13/9/2012 17:08

Earnings are not the same as cash. A corner shop might churn out loads of cash but the still yet have negative earnings if the value of the building falls enough. Property companies go bust and don't finish projects despite positive earnings. The rising value of buildings under construction can generate earnings as rising asset values but they need cash to pay suppliers and can run out before cash is raised from selling finished buildings. It is cash that pays dividends, not earnings. Earnings figures can be representative or be naturally a little misleading or can actively be manipulated. Cash is harder to manipulate and often gives a better picture, although not always. Check both and learn the difference.

[solarno lopez] 13/9/2012 16:49

Earnings are cash aren't they ...so I join Aleman with his suggestion ..can anybody put us on the correct route

[aleman] 13/9/2012 16:38

First, cash pays dividends, not earnings. The dividend might not have been covered by earnings but it was by operating cashflow which didn't seem to have a great deal of other demands on it.

Secondly, short-term earnings and cashflow are depressed by extra commissions and costs of investing in increasing new regular premium policies. Both should rise again in the medium term. Meanwhile there seems to be plenty of cash on the balance sheet to pay out a rising dividend.

I'm new to this one, though, so would be happy if anyone wishes to point out anything I'm missing.

1.3.2 Cash and bank deposits

In the current low interest rate environment the Group feels that the best use of its capital is to ensure continued investment in profitable regular premium contracts. These investments earn a return of at least 15% p.a. As can be seen above, the Group invested GBP12.3m in new business during the year which was funded by cash flows from the existing policy book. While the construction of the Group's products means that this investment will be recouped within 3 years, continued investment in profitable regular premium contracts produces a short term cash strain as a result of the commission and other costs incurred at inception of a contract.

Following this investment in new business and a continuation of the Group's progressive dividend record, cash at 31 December 2011 stood at GBP67.4m. This is a decrease of GBP5.7m from the value of GBP73.1m reported at 30 June 2011, despite the payment of a dividend of GBP11m during the period. This further reflects the Group's continued cash generative capability.

[solarno lopez] 13/9/2012 16:05

No it cannot if these figures are to be believed.

You are unwise to pay out more than you earn according to Mr Micawber

[cwa1] 13/9/2012 16:01

Incredible dividend level. Can it possibly be continued?

[loganair] 13/9/2012 15:55

Panmure Gordon was the last broker to give an update on the 11 September - for what it's worth:

..........2012.....2013

Pre-tax..£11.2m...£15.1m
EPS.......8.04p...10.07p
DPS......14.20p...14.80p

[cwa1] 13/9/2012 14:32

Hello Aleman et al

Just flung the loose change in one of my accounts at HSD pre results myself to keep you company ;-)

Good luck to all holders.

[aleman] 13/9/2012 12:27

Just had a little top up ahead of results a week tomorrow.

[westcountryboy] 14/8/2012 10:28

Thanks for that. I feared as much! If investors focus on eps (rightly or wrongly), this is not going anywhere for a while, I suspect.

[cwa1] 14/8/2012 08:46

In case Aleman is busy/away. They are Pre Tax, EPS, DPS and sales respectively. PT and Sales in £m

[fangorn2] 14/8/2012 08:29

Hi Westcountry

I suspect they're referring to Panmure's estimates for PBT, EPS, Price Targets.
No header so difficult to see what each yearly column relates to.

Perhaps you can elaborate Aleman - is it PBT,EPS, DPS, Price Target?

[westcountryboy] 14/8/2012 08:21

What do the figures mean?

[aleman] 13/8/2012 17:57

Panmure Gordon BUY 08 Aug 2012
2011 16.70 12.01 13.80 221.00
2012 11.20 8.04 14.20 176.00
2013 15.10 10.67 14.80 202.00

[skyship] 09/8/2012 15:04

Trying to work out whether these are now exceptionally good value on a likely yield of c11%; or whether they are just a cheap stock likely to get cheaper as they decline remorselessly to a 100p double bottom.

If the 82y/o Chairman finally decides to look for offers for his 40% stake, who will bid and at what level? Any thoughts? Presumably this has been discussed here before...

Interestingly the indicators seem to have stabilised whilst the share price continues its decline.