Gore Street Energy Storage Share Discussion Threads

[scruff1] 14/1/2025 17:07

Good lad wskill. I love optimism.

[george stobbart] 14/1/2025 15:07

Seems like the markets aren't seeing a future in a country whose primary activities are gang rape and chromosomal abnormalities.

[wskill] 14/1/2025 14:32

Do think we will have news very soon on Big Rock completion this week or next ,its not NG we are dealing with thank goodness look at enderby how long has that taken now.

[andycranleigh] 14/1/2025 10:30

Nonetheless, GSF shares v undervalued as standalone

[andycranleigh] 14/1/2025 10:14

Agree with that. The likes of SSE are better placed to dispatch it within context of their wind, solar and CCGTs.

[craigso] 14/1/2025 09:39

You don't have to be "woke" to recognise that wind and solar electrons are the cheapest ones available under current technologies. But you need to time shift those electrons from when they are generated to when they are needed. BESS does that relatively cost-efficiently - certainly better than hydro pumped storage, etc.

The question is designing a market that incentivises the required investments. Not so easy... If you over-remunerate "capacity" you end up with old rust buckets doing just enough to stay online. The alternative is to accept bad headlines every once in awhile about how you had to pay somebody millions to help keep the lights on.

Anyhow, I instinctively like how California does it. (and GSF partially benefits from) If you want to sell electricity to end consumers, you have to prove that you have access to the required capacity - and pay for it. That way, the "market" decides how much capacity is worth.

I also think the future will involve more co-located BESS with wind and solar to take advantage of the same grid connection whilst time shifting electrons as needed.

But is a stand-alone BESS sector really the solution? I'm not sure. Either contractually or corporately, I think BESS belongs within larger power trading / supply entities.

[mindthestash] 14/1/2025 09:39

thanks all for comments

seems to me renewable generators will move into storage if the returns are there and when the 'bonkers' system of paying not to generate comes to an abrupt end. this might be an opportunity for GSF or some sort of JV

yes i do think consumers will manage their electricity peal pricing demand. but this will be driven by peak pricing introduction -again my guess this will be in commercial sector first -as businesses dont vote but residents do. if you can charge you car overnight -no reason you cant charge your domestic supply battery in the garage/outhouse overnight

[cc2014] 14/1/2025 08:21

"cc

and I'm not convinced that long term the battery sector is one I want to be in.

Can you please expand. I was thinking the opposite! As battery technology advances and prices fall they will become the most critical element of the supply chain? The ability to store solar/wind for when the sun doesn't shine etc is the future?"


1. Concerns that the largest part of the market is for "energy storage" not "battery storage"
2. Concerns that constantly falling prices of battery storage do not work with a business model where well in excess of 50% of the revenues come at market price (new entrants keep driving down the revenue per Mw/hr)
3. Concerns that the demand management of renewables significantly shifts to the consumer


4. And finally the whole pricing mechanism for power for the consumer is bonkers. When the cost of providing power jumps 30 fold yet the consumer gets charged the same amount (and the battery providers make their money based on this business model) there is something very wrong.

(as is the idea that wind generators get paid for turning off turbines and again the BESS revenue model is designed around such instances)

[andycranleigh] 13/1/2025 22:53

Optimising batteries is a world away from operating wind and solar projects. We looked at batteries endlessly on projects - was often part of the planning submission - but never deployed them. Completely different skill sets.

[dustinthyme] 13/1/2025 22:37

Point 1 - If it were that easy why haven't they?.... generators are slowly moving into storage but GSF becomes an attractive target in that scenario.
Point 2 - do you think Joe Public will manage their domestic energy trading or will we see an energy trader like GSF take on and manage a portfolio of such energy sources and profit from that?

[mindthestash] 13/1/2025 22:16

I'm not sure battery storage as it is currently platformed by GSF will still be needed IF
1. Gas Solar and wind suppliers develop their own batteries or merge with BESS.

2. residential and commercial users have thier own in house or off site batteries to support their usage away from peak pricing
?

Thoughts?

[kernelthread] 13/1/2025 21:48

I would imagine high grid load overnight will get considerably more common once everyone's car is electric and everyone's heating is electric. A few cold nights like we just had will push up the power requirement. Unless the advice is going to be, "Don't put your heating on overnight, just wear 2 jumpers and 2 pairs of socks in bed."
There's also the issue of the number of charge-discharge cycles the battery can take before suffering substantial loss of capacity. I wouldn't want to spend a huge amount of cash on an EV and then have the battery worn out by it being used as a component of the power grid.

[alan pt] 13/1/2025 21:41

Which is why you'll be able to select the minimum charge level that you will accept (this functionality already exists). Even though high grid load overnight is fairly rare anyway

Presumably this just gets more sophisticated in time "Hey john, I see you have a long journey planned tomorrow, charge to 100% tonight?"

[kernelthread] 13/1/2025 20:52

What happens when you put your EV on charge overnight, intending to do a long journey the following morning, only to find that because there's been no wind overnight, your EV's battery has been powering everyone's heating system and has less charge in it than you started the night with? You're going to be pretty cheesed off then I would have thought.

[andycranleigh] 13/1/2025 18:28

Sorry yes agree with you re manager pretax

[alan pt] 13/1/2025 18:28

As I've said before, I see V2G

...being a better alternative to continued battery farm build-out long term, but it's still some way from being operational at scale (only some recent models of vehicle even have the capability)

There should be plenty of money to be made in the meantime, so it's not really a negative in the kind of timescales that the market thinks in :)

[andycranleigh] 13/1/2025 18:00

My business partner knows the CEO well. “He is very bright and very straight”. Not sure I’d cast aspersions on this board without some provable facts.

[pretax2] 13/1/2025 16:47

Ghhghh
Yep agree. I didn’t buy GSF to be ESG, but rather I can’t see any alternative to using batteries for wind and solar projects. The main competitor would be nuclear since the direction of travel is towards sustainability.
The share price is depressing, but I’m happy with everything else and looking forward to the divi.
btw I think besmirching the fund manager without any justification is poor form. Personally I imagine I’d find him difficult to work for, but then I don’t work for him and it’s just gut feeling.

[ghhghh] 13/1/2025 16:16

cc

and I'm not convinced that long term the battery sector is one I want to be in.

Can you please expand. I was thinking the opposite! As battery technology advances and prices fall they will become the most critical element of the supply chain? The ability to store solar/wind for when the sun doesn't shine etc is the future?

[cc2014] 13/1/2025 15:37

And today's share price weakness may or may not be something to do with CATL.

(which this being ADVFN no-one will post as it's not positive news)

[cc2014] 13/1/2025 15:21

If I may answer scruff.

The issue is that this is ADVFN not the FT. Posters tend to write what is in their best interests which is the price going up not a balanced view.

Any poster who dares to post against the flow of optimism tends to get told they are wrong.

We all see this.

I was one of the posters who used to be optimistic. That was based on a simple concept that as the assets came on line, the revenue stream would see the share price as undervalued. Regrettably the assets haven't come on stream on time (Enderby is what 18 months late?). and whilst this has been not happened gilts have gone against the share price as has the revenue per Mw/hr.

Further I have seen more and more red flags about the fund manager which I don't intend to write up now.

Whilst I could be persuaded there is value here and the share price might indeed rise, but based on opportunity cost I'd rather buy SEIT or NESF or FGEN or TRIG in this sector at the moment. Broadly there are far less red flags and I think I'm far more certain to make a good investment. That is to say that GSF may or may not do even better than the stocks I mention but the risk is higher and I'm not convinced that long term the battery sector is one I want to be in.

If I do come back to own this stock again it certainly won't be in the size I was invested last time.

[waterloo01] 13/1/2025 15:09

No your not wrong, but they do now need to demonstrate that the PF as built out, or near build out can deliver sustained and fully covered dividends, then confidence will return IMO

[andycranleigh] 13/1/2025 15:08

The main issue is relentless selling by Rathbones (and probably other wealth managers). They happily bought at 100p but are now remorseless sellers because of mergers, meaning they breach % holding limits and also their liquidity rules. Their selling at 45p is a disgrace for their clients but they have little option. So don’t necessarily blame GSF. The main driver of the recent decline are the wealth managers.