FishWorks Share Discussion Threads

[top loser] 06/6/2002 11:57

Can't remember how many I hold (around 80,000 I think).
I'm interested in any info. I've been away for a few months around the world and still rather shocked at this outcome. I've held FSH for a few years now and I saw the recent decline as a great recovery play. Shows how much I know.
Any info much appreciated. I'll post my actual holding when I find my certs.

[wicky] 05/6/2002 16:38

66,000 for me good luck!!

[tizpor] 05/6/2002 16:31

60,000 for me.
Contact information for the receivers would be useful
Thanks for your efforts

[ydderf] 04/6/2002 10:26

you must also be prepared to play a little dirty - they will!

many times it is the naivety of action groups which sinks them - you are up against spinners of the highest order, you cannot beat them with niceness and appeals to fair play and logic....most boards despise small shareholders (strange but true)and only occasionally (pretend) fear of institutions

[jimmyloser] 04/6/2002 08:58

Good Luck Dex, your partner can take heart that even though you have lost the cash, you have chased after it persistently, Hope the England team do the same on Friday!

Like everyone else, I fear that this is a dead duck, though I have confidence in Jupiter, Silchester,Fidelity to believe that anything to be had will be had

Your assumptions are standard thinking based on what you actually know, however in this case something went seriously wrong, We never saw any Director buying did we, even when he said those famous words, which may yet come back to haunt him, "Broadly in Line" etc.

If I was a Supermarket buyer I would be desperate to support Fishers, and hope that either the management or someone other than Geest or Northern get their hands on my supply line.



CONJECTURE CORNER

We will I believe have some news this week, time as everyone points out is against them..........I remember my fateful posting at 6.30 on the morning of the rns.."if you were a bank would you support this inexperienced lot"..perhaps the same would be true now............Broken up in five lots........legal action to follow., ......this story will be told, there is still a while to wait

Enjoy the footy, R E L A X


Jim

[acelogic] 03/6/2002 23:19

Dex,

Don't give up. Just Group shareholders were in a very similar situation and have managed to get the company back from the administrators. The best way to unite everyone who share your views is to setup a web site and work as a collective. There really is strength in numbers. The Just Action Group used to unite thousands of shareholders and raise over £2m to help fund a CVA in order to rescue the company.

[ardent scout] 03/6/2002 21:26

Dex, don't give up, I'm sure many are interested in your efforts.

For a long while, up to about Xmas, I was in total agreement with your calculations, thought FSH was a cracking buy for a predator at even 5 or 6p, never happened though!

Now, with every day that goes by now, FSH are going to become less & less of a going concern. Whatever you're differences have been, I think Greengiant is right about that one. If you were Tesco, M&S or whoever, what would you be doing now? To extract any value (in a going concern sense) KPMG need to sell fast, particularly Fisher Foods....and that in itself is not conducive to producing the best sale price.

My instincts are there's very little chance of a return to shareholders.

We can all live in hope though, I suppose........Good Luck

[dexdringle] 03/6/2002 16:41

Okay guys - no more now then after this. I'll pursue my own way and not post any more here.

Regardless of GG's comment above (is this the same GG who had "turned very bullish" on FSH 3 weeks ago ?) I still believe we should see a positive net distributable figure at the end of the day given that the asset values in the books are not exactly stretching (85% of them are land, debtors and stock - no intangibles) and the liabilities (including pension shortfall) should be covered with ease from total assets. There is little if any going concern value in the book assets so essentially all businesses could be virtually given away for their net asset value (i.e. buyer pays only the small difference between assets and liabs for each business taking over the assets and liabs [inc debt]) and still leave a net surplus liquidation.

This is the thing about FSH. It has been so poor that it's stockmarket value fell below the value of it's net assets (shareholder funds) which were £33M (stockmarket value at 2p £14M). Look at Geest, Northern or whatever and I'm sure you'll find that their capitalisation is a multiple of net assets due to expectation of profit.

So, FSH is essentially a shell ripe for absorbtion into a competitor (s) at virtual nil premium to net assets. An absolute gift.........

Over and out.

Dex

[biomax] 01/6/2002 10:12

Dex keep fighting, its your money,

but don't gorget to buy GLG :-)

[greengiant] 01/6/2002 08:48

Dex - Give up

FSH are losing multiple business hand over fist. Value is diminishing
daily. By the time KPMG are done, there will be nothing left of value.

CO-OP have now moved ALL their business away. Put the final nail in the
coffin and set her down to rest.

[biomax] 31/5/2002 20:32

buy GLG to recover FSH loss

[jimmyloser] 31/5/2002 20:16

Dex/Dave

Take some advice....pack it in


You are going to end up getting yourself in trouble, emotion is ruling here, statements such as your last post, DO NOT HAVE MY SUPPORT, you cannot say such things without having established the facts first


Let the big guns fight this one for us....Do yourself a favour, take an Equity release loan out, you will get over this

Sorry


Jim

[dexdringle] 31/5/2002 16:42

Good point Ardent - I see what you mean re the employees atitude to CGEY

[ardent scout] 31/5/2002 16:33

Hi Dex,

I kept hold of a few FSH shares I had in a PEP, for old time sake really. My thoughts & moral support are with you. There's enough big holders to be fighting to protect their own interests, which automatically means ours as well.

It would be nice to know what went so horribly wrong, my gut instinct is that this could have happened because of CGEY's transformation plan, rather than despite it. I've seen many an instance where a companys old staff were almost willing a new, consultant hatched plan, to fail.

I'll look in from time to time.

[dexdringle] 31/5/2002 14:32

.....well Jimmy - sometimes you just have to believe you can win (Battle of Britain etc) even when the odds / history say that you shouldn't........

I'll be trying to get some sense out of KPMG shortly and I'll share anything I get.

Ignore what the papers say (I've seen "businesses to be given away", "banks to lose all money" and other ill informed rubbish recently). Bottom line is that the rump of the business (excluding RR which is it's own animal but won't cause a loss on disposal write off) has a value at least that of it's core assets and we know those are (or should be) in excess of it's liabilities - maybe by some margin.

Dave

[jimmyloser] 31/5/2002 13:31

Dave, next time I go to war, I am going to make sure that you are on my side, however, it's knowing the battles that you CAN win, that makes a man a General





Good Luck


Jim

[jazz318] 31/5/2002 10:30

Ive a small holding in this diabolically run mess of a company and I won't take much of a hit if it goes completely down the pan. However if anybody has the expertise to at least shame the pillocks that brought this about I'm with them 100%

[dexdringle] 31/5/2002 08:54

PS

KPMG. Their web site says they act for all creditors and stakeholders (including us presumably). Surely they're appointed at the banks request under certain lending covenants (a bit like if the banks had to go to court and get a court to appoint) but they don't actually work for the banks. Their fee will come from asset sales (they're not paid by the banks).

So do we, as shareholders (and stakeholders), have just as much right to dialogue with KPMG as the banks and other creditors ? Can we have access to the same information about the company that KPMG and the banks may have ? If not - why not ?

Anyone out there have the technical knowledge of Administration situations ?

Thanks

Dave

[dexdringle] 31/5/2002 08:45

Jim21

Yes, but there's a big difference between a small business that's gone bust and ceased trading (where liquidators sell off machinery, land and collects in debtors etc) and something like FSH where theres a big established 'going concern' trading business with significant profitability prospects (some would say real profitability now), a positive net worth balance sheet with no intangibles / goodwill to speak of and everything else positive mentioned in earlier messages on this thread. Also, KPMG said they expected to get it all over with in 2 months reflecting optimism in the possibility of significant sales.

Also (luckily) there are some very big boys (with their own legal recovery / departments) owning 250M shares here and they're going to want to see that some value is released too if there's any chance at all.

Hells teeth - if they can raise £25M net surplus (peanuts in the grand scheme of things with the asset values and desirability of many of the FSH businesses) this would be 3p a share. Northern Foods even mentioned in their results announcement that they might look to buy FSH businesses. A shot across the bows of AB Foods, Geest etc etc ?.

If RR sells shortly for a premium over it's proportion of book net assets we could be "game on" for a sale of the remainder of the group as a block. Lets face it, the lot can be bought for next to nothing - £30M - being the basic book asset values less liabilities - no premium, no goodwill nothing and theres still a 3p per share surplus after covering the pension shortfall (ignoring any small premuim received for the RR assets).

Fidelity have mailed me back (again). They can't discuss their strategy (fair enough - as long as they have one !) but they are interested in dialogue (albeit unofficial).

If anyone thinks all this is a waste of time, well, you're entitled to think that. I'm torn between that and a crusade. I guess the bottom line is that I just don't like to be taken for an idiot and I think that's what's happened here (remember the upbeat November 2001 accounts and the positive pre Christmas statement) ..........

Dave

[jim21] 30/5/2002 18:59

Felicitations, what can you do?

Jim

[jim21] 30/5/2002 18:55

I was involved in a co. with debts of £500,000 when the bank ` pulled the rug`.
Grant Thornton moved in as receivers/liquidators messed around for three years pursued money owed, sold off anything worth a penny, and ended up with £1.6m in cash, the bottom line for re-paying the bank, and their fees was --er yep £1.6m,
it always happens that way

FSH will pay nowt, and I am one of the suckers too,

Jim

[tyranosaurus] 30/5/2002 18:49

I`m following this.
I don`t expect any money back - so any amount would be good news.
I think KPMG will sell bits off asap regardless of whether the price is good or not. They are not on commission where the more they raise the more they get.
If they gave all FSH away for a nominal £1 they would still earn millions.

[poolerichard] 30/5/2002 17:55

Keep it up I am sure a lot of v. small investors (like myself) are following.