European Home Retail Share Discussion Threads

[earthian] 25/9/2006 10:48

bird of dawning - excellent post and very interesting points. I'm not a Kleeneze distributor, though I was for just over a year and like you I still have a high regard for the co. and its cutomer base. (Though not many of the products, some of which range from inferior to cr*p imo!)

I agree with your point about customers simply not seeing themselves doing it. With Kleeneze there is this fairly unique problem of having to traipse about in bad weather, but this (I found) is still a problem with people that have never been customers who sign up, or are considering signing up, to the opportunity (regardless of how many times you convey the message that there is no such thing as bad weather - just inappropriate clothing!). Having said that, isn't it true that mlm in general suffers the problem that customers 'can't see themselves doing it' and often cement that barrier in their minds, to the extent that their minds simply close down to the opportunity?

I take your point about the company itself not being open to a 'fusion sale' concept to encourage customers. This, I think is indicative of not getting out of the corporate comfort zone. But that, in itself, is wherein lies the rub. There are a good number of true big earners in Kleeneze - the so-called 'heavy-hitters' in mlm parlance. To what extent these big players are involved in corporate strategy I don't know. But the way they work may be seen as something of a paradox, in that whilst constantly telling their teams the value of getting out of their comfort zones, this is focussed along the lines of "for you to do what I have done means getting out of YOUR comfort zone." But that engenders the concept of not changing things at the fundamental level of how the company itself supports its distributors - i.e. "do things differently, but not differently to the way I did them." What IS interesting on this theme, is that by venturing into the web based businesses - IWOOT for example - the company itself has endeavoured to do things differently in part, thereby creating an instance of getting out of its own comfort zone. Now, I also value your observation about putting the products on a website - but this is where things could get sticky for the established distributors, unless there is some password mechanism for such websites whereby a distributor points customers to their portion of the website using their unique distributor number (a bit like an affiliate link).

What really concerns me about the future of Kleeneze is that the whole mlm paradigm is changing. Distributors are still doing things the old mlm way and expecting the massive results that the established players have. But with the advent of web marketing there are suddenly literally thousands of new network marketing opportunities that didn't exist before. Much of the advertising distributors do is based on the hook of earning an extra £50-£500 per week. This is certainly still the most important hook; it is a fact that web adverts that contain such a sentiment receive more hits than any other wording attracts (there is a huge market of people looking to work for themselves p/t). But now the argument is strengthened on the weather/perception front vis. "why should I be a catalogue distributor, when there are any number of opportunities out there I can sign up to, which I can operate from the computer in my bedroom?" What this seems to mean is that the Kleeneze distributors who are team building are having to recruit more new people than ever before... to STAND STILL! I had the distinct feeling, when I was involved with Kleeneze, that there is a tangible undercurrent of thinly disguised panic amongst the 'middle layer' (for want of a better description) of distributors. i.e. those who have largish teams and very good p/t incomes, but who can't yet be lumped into the super league category. It was as if the messages of "how good things can be for you," constantly sent to their team members, were born more from fear of losing those people than of those people not signing-up anyone new themselves.

IMO things are definitely going to have to change, and whether or not Kleeneze can pull it off remains to be seen.

One final point regarding your final point - the distributor I was signed up to decided to think outside the box himself when he first started. He put a flyer in all of his catalogues offering a 10% discount on everything. The result of this was that other local distributors got wind of it and claimed it was unfair competition. The distributor then received a formal letter from the company slapping his wrists...

(Apologies for the long post, but I think this an interesting discussion).

[bird of dawning] 25/9/2006 01:31

I seem to recall that back on ye olde `EHR with Charts & News' thread I made the last post; no.27 (+ also no.25) and maybe this post should have had an accompanying MP3 bugle soundtrack!....not that I'm in anyway gleeful at Kleeneze/EHR demise......but you had been warned about being "overstretched on the borrowing front".

However!.......it looks to me that many previous posters on that thread then voted with their feet in order to stay within their KLZ/EHR (whats in a name?) comfort zone.

That is not a very mlm thing to do!.....we're supposed to get out of our comfort zones.....just as the group distributor meeting pep talks are always reminding us. I'm a former Kleeneze distributor and still have a high regard for the company and its solid retailing base. Their fundamental flaw IMHO is that the very clear description of the Kleeneze networking opportunity on the back page of every catalogue complete with the Kleeneze commission structure, is misdirected.

Why?!.....because its not duplicatable (mlm sacrilege!). Although the retail customers of Kleeneze are very loyal and love the catalogue, as well as using its products regularly with repeat orders.....THEY DON'T SEE THEMSELVES DOING IT!.....going out in December and January in the dark, cold and rain dropping catalogues door to door.....its all a matter of public perception.....right?

If Kleeneze placed an ad for discount (wholesale price deals) on the back cover of every catalogue, to lure the legions of regular retail customers, they would then become de facto distributors.....the famed `FUSION SALE'.

My second observation (Gripe?) is that their entire catalogue should be on one website....a bit like Ebay or Quixtar (no!....I'm not an Amway distributor). Their catalogue would still be circulated as required, maintaining that so important `warm market' connection.

I reckon that I'm staying on thread.....I've been floored once already....don't do it to me yet again guys.....its unchappish!.....get out of the comfort zone and into the Autumn sunshine with 400 catalogues per week.....but IMHO it needs a flyer to be included with it, offering a healthy discount for regular orders (say 20%); c/w direct debit and as a reward, a free sign up, as long as a monthly retail revenue of £20 product value is maintained.
Regards bod
www.moreinfo247.com/8821255/MRA

[skintvestor] 22/9/2006 20:22

earthian - as it happens, my partner and I are distributors. You are probably right in that at general distributor level, nobody realises what is going on.

My guess is that EHR expanded too rapidly and overstretched themselves on the borrowing front. They invested in a brand new automated warehouse to compliment Kleeneze`s expansion into Holland and Germany. I only hope they are able to trade their way out of trouble. I`ve seen it with other companies. e.g. LCI

[earthian] 22/9/2006 18:43

Certainly hope so Matt!! That was my initial reason for getting in (only been in since July, with a top-up at what I thought was the low in August). I've watched this share for two years now... maybe I should have stuck with your plan and carried on just watching :))

[matt] 22/9/2006 18:28

I'm watching. Must admit to not holding but wondered if they'll come back as a nice recovery play.

[earthian] 22/9/2006 18:24

At the risk of talking to myself on here ;)

Just to let anyone with an interest in what might be going on know, I have sent an email to investor relations at EHR today.

...maybe if others do the same they might be shamed into updating us...?

[earthian] 22/9/2006 15:33

Hi skintinvestor

I have spoken to a couple of Kleeneze distributors myself, since the suspension of share trading, to gauge how that part of the business is going. The responses I've had agree with your point - i.e. that trading is as normal - but also that at distributor level there is neither knowledge that the company may be in trouble, nor that the shares have been suspended! (This last point is probably not surprising - I doubt that the majority of distributors are even aware that it is a quoted company, never mind owning shares!)

My concern here is to wonder to what extent the borrowing problem truly affects the future existence of EHR as a whole (some news from the company may help :) ), and how likely it is that they will recommence trading. This is the first time I've held shares in a company that has suspended share trading, but from knowledge of other companies it is, as she-ra said above, "not looking good at all."

I wonder what the likely next steps are...? To split the company up so that Kleeneze trades as a separate entity from the newly acquired businesses like IWOOT? Or is this not possible having rebranded themselves as EHR? Some kind of reverse takeover?

Anyone with any experience of similar situations, comments, etc., ...?

[skintvestor] 22/9/2006 13:38

By all accounts, the Kleeneze division is still trading very strongly!

[wiganer] 23/8/2006 16:37

the only way this will be 10-bagger is if they do a 100 for 1 share consolidation...

[craigc25] 23/8/2006 16:35

yep, not looking good at all

[she-ra] 23/8/2006 16:22

It looks to be game over.

[Abuse team] 17/8/2006 21:13

Post removed by ADVFN

[ygor] 17/8/2006 21:09

SOLA is a future example of a 10 bagger, i.e. share price will rise to 10x its current level. EHR is an example of a 0.1 bagger, i.e. share price has fallen from 200p to a tenth of that. You want to buy the former and avoid the latter, as a good general rule.

[meenan] 17/8/2006 20:20

Call me thick but what is a 10 bagger?

[skintvestor] 16/8/2006 12:28

Most definitely!!!

[kipper62] 15/8/2006 18:40

This is a 10 bagger if you can wait for 18-24 months

[the analyst] 03/8/2006 13:01

I'm sure it will bounce back one day skintinvestor, but will it be some time after a debt for equity deal in an ntl type of way?

The funding issue is a real problem and still no news.

One can only think that no news is bad news here

[skintvestor] 02/8/2006 09:23

The following article is why I think EHR will eventually bounce back.



LRI Industry Report™

Kleeneze and
the Shakeout! Boom

Will Kleeneze succeed in the new boom of
Network Marketing in Europe?

The 'Shakeout' stage of an industry's Lifecycle is when fortunes are made. It is the development stage that follows the wild and entrepreneurial 'Growth' stage when an industry is pioneered. It is the stage when Nokia, Microsoft, Vodafone, Dell, Body Shop and Google became famous. When the extra-ordinary growth and profits created extra-ordinary incomes. When owners and company leaders got rich.
If an industry has major trends driving it then it's the Industry Lifecycle that provides the simple answer to the question - When should I join an industry?

Joining an industry in the 'Birth' or 'Growth' stage has the greatest potential to grow YET there is a 99% chance that the business you joined will fail.
The best time to join an industry is in the Shakeout stage [Point X]. The business concept is proven and markets pioneered. This is when the strong companies strengthen their businesses and sales explode.

Network Marketing
After its 'Growth Stage' boom pioneering 100 countries creating €80 billion in sales, Network Marketing/Direct Sales has now fundamentally changed and now entered it Shakeout Stage of Growth.
In the past twenty years of its 'Growth' stage, every country has been opened, nearly every product and plan concept pioneered. The high 'Growth Stage' failure rate has meant that Network Marketing has attracted negative public image.
After the recent boom in Network Marketing, some ask whether the growth opportunities are now finished. Those who had a negative experience or know other who did not succeed find it difficult to believe the industry could boom again. These people will miss out on a major financial opportunity.



The WFDSA chart global sales of in US$ [on right] clearly shows the global boom, industry refocus period and now new boom - 30% global growth in just 3 years. What is does not show is that nearly every country is growing.
A significant development is that the growth is lead by the big companies rather than new companies. The major reason for this is believed that the high failure rate of new companies in the Growth Stage means that Network Leaders, the key driver of growth, are only interested in secure successful companies.
The new SHAKEOUT boom means that Network Marketing is the 'Right Place at the Right Time.' It is the perfect time to join the industry. Our only advice is that you must join a strong company.

Kleeneze
Kleeneze is becoming one of Europe's leaders in Network Marketing after becoming the No1 Network Marketing company in the UK. After years of continuous growth, it is begun its expansion across Europe and the reasons for its success are clear:
1. People buy from catalogues delivered to their home. Most people find something they want, especially with large ranges and low prices with convenient delivery. Thus the catalogues do the selling which overcomes one of the biggest blocks to making money in Network Marketing.
2. Kleeneze has perfected its catalogue and supply system, thus as long as catalogues go out, retail sales are made. This retail sales strength means networks can last for decades.
3. Kleeneze's leadership opportunity has proven itself against the world's best in the UK where it has grown to No1 status in sales with many leaders on residual incomes. Competitive commissions, car plan and travel incentives plus the security of public-listed status ensures appeal to new people wanting a leadership rewards.
For the reasons above, LRI believes Kleeneze has a competitive and unique market offer. There does not see any restriction to growth across Europe. Even in its home market of the UK, Kleeneze has reached less than 20% of its potential size.
LRI is confident to predict that Kleeneze will be one of the companies to lead the Shakeout boom in Europe. Sales of in excess of €1billion are likely within a decade, limited only by the company expansion programme and network leadership.


Ludbrook Research International [LRI] is strategic research company focused on the Direct Sales and hyper-growth industries. Edward Ludbrook is recognised as a world authority on the industry of Network Marketing who has sold more than 2 million books and audios in 20 languages. His new industry book - 'Shakeout!' explains why Network Marketing is booming again. For his FREE online newsletter go to www.ludbrook.com
LRI or Mr Ludbrook has no financial involvement with Kleeneze and the company or its representatives has not paid or endorsed this independent report.
This report is copyright protected yet this report may be used as a whole without the express permission of LRI. www.ludbrook.com

[13579] 29/7/2006 20:38

news...

ehr